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It's called the Institute of Noetic SCIENCES for a reason!

Posted Jan. 2, 2014 by NoetPoet in Open

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commented on Aug. 18, 2014
by SufferingServant

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41

Dear all,

Let me start of by saying that I really like the fundamental idea of the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS). That idea, as I see it, is to use science to explore the full capabilities and potentials of humans. This is such a positive and worthwhile idea. A big part of what makes it such a worthwhile idea is that, unlike so many New Age websites and quasi-religious institutions dedicated to the promotion of pseudoscientific quackery and unfounded fantasies, IONS is all about using a *scientific* approach to exploring human abilities. This means looking at the evidence objectively with integrity and without bias, and seeking out a credible, independently verifiable and above all a practical understanding of reality.

To put it another way, IONS attempts to be a small island of open-mindedness and possibility in a vast ocean of religious dogmatism, close-minded "scepticism", and New Age lunacy. So it dismays me to look at the IONS forum and see, time and time again, people making wild claims based on shoddy reasoning and with little or no reference to scientific research; to see certain posters explicitly ostracise certain other posters from certain conversations simply because those other posters put forward challenging arguments based on actual evidence; to see fantasist groupthink and confirmation bias not only abounding but even encouraged by some posters; to see the scientific method, and even the institution of science itself, ruthlessly and ridiculously vilified simply because the findings of science threaten certain posters' neurotic narcissistic beliefs about the nature of reality; and to see certain posters hysterically denounced and smeared just because they dare to have a different, evidence-based view.

I for one am determined to look the truth square in the eye, to see and accept it for what it is no matter how disagreeable I may personally find it. Because only when the truth is understood and appreciated can we really begin to make any progress. I will also do my utmost to make the IONS forum a place where science and reason receive the respect they deserve, in keeping with the spirit in which IONS operates.

  • 41 Comments  
  • Anonymous Icon

    SufferingServant Aug 18, 2014

    Hello RoS, as dustproduction has so kindly pointed out, you may have been lost in the conversation.

    "I am hardly the one with the problem, when I am trying to save thousands of people's lives from an imminent event, or a quarter of a million people's lives as with the Indonesian tsunami, and the collective unconscious convention and its equally unconscious "scientists" think I'm nuts and totally ignore me!"

    Yes, the irrational scientific community. How ironic eh?

    They don't see what is true.

    Let me first say, it is often true that irrational logic minded people (based on half-truths which is partial-truth coupled with mistake lies) will refer to you as insane. The best advice I can give you is to focus on what you know is true and not allow their ignorance to deny your truth.

    Then, you must next understand that 'unconscious' is incorrect. It is 'subconscious', and it's 'more conscious' than you may realize.

    You're petitioning the wrong community.

    (note: this is generalized, as very few deter from the norm here...)

    Scientist are the ones who have worked to create most of the problems we have via their irrational logic. It is very similar to how broken the medical system is. They don't heal. They don't really care about their patients. Most are attracted to the medical profession for the financial reward. Doctors 'treat symptoms' they don't hit the root of the problem. Which really pisses me off to be honest with you - They would rather you keep coming back for more bandaids than to be cured. Many scientist are the same way. We spends billions looking into space for new quests, but why? There are more than new problems right here at home to solve.

    No, you are petitioning the wrong community. In order to fix the world's problems, we must attack the root of the problems.

    We must evolve. For now, prevention is not the solution. The solution is the change the system. The education process for these scientist needs to change.

    Did you know Doctors only study 'nutritional science' for roughly 2 weeks? Yet proper nutrition can heal us. It is false-logic.

    I recommend you create awareness in the non-scientific community. Arguing with irrational logic that believes it is completely rational is not an easy battle. Look to educate those looking to know. Not those who are so full of themselves that they already believe they know. They don't respond to emotion, which is where your questions come from. They can only be beaten by turning their own logic against them.

    Irrational emotional (non-logical) people are much more likely to be swayed with your position. When enough of those people start seeing and saying 'WTF' is when 'false-scientists' are swayed.

  • Anonymous Icon

    SufferingServant Aug 17, 2014

    Lol. Sure, if any therapist would like to chat, I am open. But will they realize I am the one whose inside their mind?

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Aug 17, 2014

    @ Noetic Poet

    Another interloper who seems intent on gaining personal attention?
    A serious seeker would focus less on you, or their intentions, and instead focus on the thread and the previous comments.
    Cause to wonder; whose puppet is this?

    What got overlooked here was the comment by RoS, "and its equally unconscious "scientists" think I'm nuts and totally ignore me!"

    What was the insult here? Who ignored who over what? This point regarding "Indonesian tsunami" is repeated time and again with not real details.

  • NoetPoet Aug 17, 2014

    @SufferingServant

    For your own sake, please get professional medical help if you haven't done so already. Your traumatic experiences are, I'm afraid to say, almost certainly distorting your thinking and perception.

  • Anonymous Icon

    SufferingServant Aug 17, 2014

    :-(

    You're discouraging me from wanting to contribute to society.

    But, I won't stop.

    You misunderstand still, sir.

    I see myself inside of you. That is who I'm talking to when I speak to you. In a way, I see you as me. So helping you is helping me. Helping myself is helping you.

    Explain this:

    If I am condescending, why am I not being mean? I don't see myself as better than you. We are equals. I'm participating out of love. I've merged 'self' with its opposite 'others'.

    Otherwise, I would simply ignore you and let you continue through life as an irrational baboon! Again, I am not your enemy I am your friend - your perception of me as an enemy is only because I am combating your own misconceptions hidden to you within your belief system.

    I am effectively incepting ideas into your subconscious with love (lol).

    In the future, you will not forget what you have learned from our discussions.

    Any 'lurkers' who aren't commenting (yes I'm talking about you!) are going to be changed as well.

    My motivation is you.

  • NoetPoet Aug 17, 2014

    “Sir with all due respect sir, I am begging you kindly, will you please teach me the nature of reality and tell me my purpose in life, sir? Your deductive logic and cognitive capacity is truly inspiring, sir. I would certainly be most gracious if could enlighten me, sir. “

    Is that how you were expecting me and others here to react to your sagely proclamations?

    “I am not condescending. “

    Well you’re doing a damn good imitation!

    “I am descending to your level so you may ascend to mine.”

    Are you having a laugh here?? Do you realize that what you’ve said here is the VERY DEFINITION of “condescending”?

    “Cause like I said, I love you bro. “

    Tell me, do you often accuse those you “love” of being the Prince of Darkness?

  • Anonymous Icon

    SufferingServant Aug 17, 2014

    Sir with all due respect sir, I am begging you kindly, will you please teach me the nature of reality and tell me my purpose in life, sir? Your deductive logic and cognitive capacity is truly inspiring, sir. I would certainly be most gracious if could enlighten me, sir.

    But in all seriousness:

    I am not condescending.

    I am descending to your level so you may ascend to mine. Cause like I said, I love you bro.

  • NoetPoet Aug 17, 2014

    "I',m simply counter-intuitive to your own subconscious belief system. In short, you are projecting that counter-intuitive feeling onto me as if I am against 'you'. But, I am only against the self-induced prison known as 'your beliefs' and only when your mouth pushes out inaccuracies."

    Baseless assertion is baseless.

    "I've shown you where the key is, it's up to you go and collect it so you may unlock your cell's door. At this time I cannot walk in and unlock it for you, bring you out, and show you how to freely think. If there were more time I most certainly would, though."

    If you're going to be condescending, then could you at least be intelligible about it?

  • Anonymous Icon

    SufferingServant Aug 17, 2014

    Delusion is a product of half-truths implanted within your subconscious belief system, often by your own conscious self.

    If you won't close your eyes and look in the mirror, you are most certainly doomed.

    At least your still thinking though. Hope that your replies didn't take too much of your valuable time.

    God bless! BTW, I am not against 'you'. I'm simply counter-intuitive to your own subconscious belief system. In short, you are projecting that counter-intuitive feeling onto me as if I am against 'you'. But, I am only against the self-induced prison known as 'your beliefs' and only when your mouth pushes out inaccuracies.

    I've shown you where the key is, it's up to you go and collect it so you may unlock your cell's door. At this time I cannot walk in and unlock it for you, bring you out, and show you how to freely think. If there were more time I most certainly would, though.

  • NoetPoet Aug 16, 2014

    "To your first point, it is implied by the topic of this post."

    No it's not. The whole point of this thread is that IONS is about using *science* to investigate human abilities, and that people who post on the IONS discussion board ought to appeal to and use science rather than bash and dismiss it. At no point did I make any comment on what was and wasn't "the only path to truth"; the reason I am advocating for science is because IONS itself is ostensibly a *scientific* organisation.

    "Often, science just verifies the truth, and disproves the half-truths (have lies and truths), though it is not the only expression of truth."

    So are you saying that science doesn't actually do anything to advance human knowledge, but merely acts as a check and balance on wild speculations which are the true drivers of knowledge advancement? If so, then you are very mistaken. Science advances by building and testing hypothesis based on empirical data and existing scientific understanding. Science makes no claims to be "the only expression of truth", however it's track record is a damn sight better than anything else humankind has ever come up with.

    "And besides, you logically prove yourself wrong by saying art can express truth (with the metaphors)."

    When did I mention art? I said that metaphor can be useful for *explaining* a scientific theory to others or providing a new perspective on a scientific problem which opens up new possibilities for experimentation. How is this logically proving myself wrong??

    "Religion is most often an expression of truth, except when it is warped by lies."

    So what you're saying is that religion is true except when it isn't. You seem to have a knack for stating the blooming obvious. The problem is, most of religion is bs and the few parts of it that actually are true are lucky/educated guesses.

    "That is why literal interpretation can be so dangerous - it is not literally true, just as metaphors are not literally true."

    Yes, a literal interpretation of religion can indeed be dangerous. But the more you reduce religion to metaphor, the more vague and less useful it becomes. Literal and dangerous or airy-fairy and irrelevant: that is the choice when it comes to religion. Just ask the deists.

    "By the way, it is not good practice to use a word in the definition of the same word, as you did."

    When?

  • NoetPoet Aug 16, 2014

    "Don't be offended, please. I am not your enemy. I am like your friend in that I don't want you to 'hurt' yourself, and so I'm just letting you know that in fact you are. Because I love you bro!"

    Try not to be too condescending, you might pull a muscle.

    "Now, I am saying this is true: religions are all expressions of the same truth(partially, though impartially as well to those who 'see' through the bs lies) though, they are in metaphors."

    So again, religions are true except when they're not. FYI, blatantly obvious does not equal profound.So tell me, once we take out all the bs in religion, what's left? And how do you reconcile *fundamental differences* in the teachings of different religions, e.g. on questions like eternal punishment, the existence of god and the soul??

    "Though, Many have been watered down."

    Particularly by well-meaning but naive "moderates" who cherry-pick all the 'nice' bits that accord with their own personal values (!) and airbrush their faith to the point of oblivion.

    "Even the perceived literal is often metaphorical. It has been created this way intentionally so that it would stand the test of time, and enemies of 'truth' would not understand it and destroy it, those who did would add lies so it would serve them- enemies of 'truth' wish to remain/gain complete control via submission to authority via half-truths. They don't want you to know 'truth' so they distort it. They keep truth to themselves so they can remain in control."

    Where's the evidence for this grand conspiracy?

    "Soon, I will be 'illuminating' the myths, and scientificly (logic) explaining how they are true - in a book I am working on. You will see, unless you close your mind. "

    I look forward to critiquing your book...

  • Anonymous Icon

    SufferingServant Aug 15, 2014

    To your first point, it is implied by the topic of this post. Often, science just verifies the truth, and disproves the half-truths (have lies and truths), though it is not the only expression of truth.

    Did you not intend to express that the scientific method is the only expression of truth with the title of this post? If you deny it, I can see through you.. And besides, you logically prove yourself wrong by saying art can express truth (with the metaphors).

    To your second point, I agree, but you're only partially expressing the truth. You say science uses metaphors (which is art) to express truth. Metaphors are not inherantly true, though they are an expression of truth (often) - just as most 'good' art is. Religion is most often an expression of truth, except when it is warped by lies. It is not true in an of itself, but it is an artistic way to express what is true, but often only half-truths (lies!) . That is why literal interpretation can be so dangerous - it is not literally true, just as metaphors are not literally true. By the way, it is not good practice to use a word in the definition of the same word, as you did. Don't be offended, please. I am not your enemy. I am like your friend in that I don't want you to 'hurt' yourself, and so I'm just letting you know that in fact you are. Because I love you bro!

    To your third point: Yes I agree (with myself, lol).

    Now, I am saying this is true: religions are all expressions of the same truth(partially, though impartially as well to those who 'see' through the bs lies) though, they are in metaphors..

    Though, Many have been watered down. Even the perceived literal is often metaphorical. It has been created this way intentionally so that it would stand the test of time, and enemies of 'truth' would not understand it and destroy it, those who did would add lies so it would serve them- enemies of 'truth' wish to remain/gain complete control via submission to authority via half-truths. They don't want you to know 'truth' so they distort it. They keep truth to themselves so they can remain in control.

    Soon, I will be 'illuminating' the myths, and scientificly (logic) explaining how they are true - in a book I am working on. You will see, unless you close your mind.

  • NoetPoet Aug 15, 2014

    "To say 'science is the only path to truth' is a flat out lie based on the thought 'religion cannot have any truth'."

    Who said either of those things?

    "It is as if saying metaphors cannot express truth. Metaphors are not science."

    Metaphors can express truth *in a metaphorical way*. But that doesn't mean that the metaphor IS the truth! I think you'll find that science and scientists use metaphors all the time to both explain and advance their understanding of phenomena. What they don't do is simply content themselves with a metaphor without testing to see if it is valid.

    "You need to dispel your own lies before you can comprehend what 'Truth' is; only then can you develop your capacity to discern what is 'true'"

    Um, yes, this is pretty much the whole point of the scientific method!

  • Anonymous Icon

    SufferingServant Aug 15, 2014

    To say 'science is the only path to truth' is a flat out lie based on the thought 'religion cannot have any truth'.

    It is as if saying metaphors cannot express truth. Metaphors are not science.

    You need to dispel your own lies before you can comprehend what 'Truth' is; only then can you develop your capacity to discern what is 'true'

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Aug 11, 2014

    I am hardly the one with the problem, when I am trying to save thousands of people's lives from an imminent event, or a quarter of a million people's lives as with the Indonesian tsunami, and the collective unconscious convention and its equally unconscious "scientists" think I'm nuts and totally ignore me!

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Aug 07, 2014

    "Many decades later, I still feel like an alien on this planet, and it is tremendously frustrating, and painful!." Sounds like a "you" problem doesn't it.
    Right well, I've listened, but strongly disagree.
    I see the world as needing to be exactly as it is, I wouldn't change a thing.
    I will return to "ignore" mode now.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Aug 06, 2014

    Continuing...

    Restore INTEGRITY to science by confidently and comfortably exposing it to relentless question! Like Consciousness/Enlightenment, if it's legit, it'll hold up to any and all queries! In "Quantum Enigma," physicists were questioning science back in the 1930s, with Albert Einstein, and they're secure enough in doing that to write lots of books about it...still! (hint-hint!) Unfortunately, those questioning the old boys' school "scientific method" are still being relegated to SyFy. Millions of lives are being lost in the process.

    And I don't need IONS, they need me! And they know it, because the legit IONS folks are on the same page, searching...*higher!* They're on the Internet, growing, listening, writing, Awakening! Linking back to this site!

    And my students don't need to write on these boards when they can contact me directly! ;)

    As for the history of the boards, I was on them many years ago, and chose a healthier place to be than all that mess, have observed them since, and the bullying and chasing away of most folks and their intriguing experiences and insights persists. People don't deserve to be treated like that for trying to share their experiences! There's nothing to "scientifically" study without them!

    And nothing "scientific" about relentlessly copying and pasting other people's work! You have to commit to presenting your own!

    If IONS is ever going to actually HAVE anything to study and explore, it has to let people in to share their experiences with seemingly inexplicable phenomena! The entire foundation for IONS began with an astronaut's dreamlike experience! Maybe HE should be banned first of all?! How dare he actually have something to begin questioning?!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Aug 06, 2014

    Modern science is saying..."We want to know what's in the next room, and the next and the next and the next, but having run into a wall of...ACK!!!!...'philosophy,' it's going to 'take centuries' to figure it all out!"

    The Ancients are saying..."It has already been *realized* for thousands upon thousands of years 'how to' get around that wall to see what's there! Read the many books we've left behind, over those thousands upon thousands of years!"

    But of course scientists wouldn't want to ever be seen (publicly, anyway) looking in all the ...right/*right*... places, fear of losing tenure, social status, funding, ego needs and all...

    I am saying, you want scientific proof? Simply get off your "bench" and GO LOOK in the other rooms to see it DIRECTLY FOR YOURSELF!"

    But of course I'm simply a "mentally ill" nobody who only has the demonstrated ability to use that "how to" to save countless people's lives and advance science tremendously beyond itself. Why would anyone believe me that getting up and going there to see directly what's there for oneself would have any "scientific" merit?!

    Somehow waiting "centuries" seems the quicker and easier route? Whatever it takes to keep science from questioning itself?

    That's NOT science! That's insecurity!

    Continued...

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Aug 05, 2014

    There is nothing new here!
    You're just repeating and repeating a parroted message.

    While you write, "The "Consciousness 101..." thread guides you into that *balance!* it is not the thread that does the guiding it is you. You set yourself up as some kind of teacher but avoid calling yourself one. You do write, "my invited students," but there is little evidence of any.
    Basically, it seems that you're "blogging" here because you think you can piggy back off IONS's traffic. Is that it?

    Also you write, "Few, however, likely have the patience to put up with 2 or 3 people dominating the boards for years, chasing everybody away."
    The conflict in this statement is that evolved or involved individuals would hardly be "chased away."
    Read the older postings like I have. A case can as easily be made that those that come here are looking to deposit their narrative and preach about magical thinking. They are disappear when the discussion turns to the scientific evidence. And that is why no one takes up the challenge to discussion Dean Radin's list of research.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Aug 05, 2014

    Continuing...

    I provided a reading list in the "Consciousness 101..." thread, and the last book on the list, "Quantum Enigma," is available to actually be read on amazon a lot, revealing an intriguing visit to Einstein's home and his interest in quantum physics/mechanics. Fun read, and free, so you may enjoy it. You can see that it is saying the same thing I've just said.

    This Universal Physics have been realized for thousands upon thousands of years. Hence, my earlier reading list in that thread: Vedas (Wisdoms), Tao Te Ching (The Way Things Work), Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, etc... Modern physics' extremist "physical" views are a product of the hell-fire religious politics that had people burned at the stake, nailed to crosses, millions murdered in holocausts, etc, because it ran to the opposite extreme. The true Universal Physics Processes can ONLY be *realized* through the restoration of genuine *balance!*

    The "Consciousness 101..." thread guides you into that *balance!* Commit yourself to *Universal Balance* and the physics required to process and traverse relative time and space, multiple/parallel dimensions, wormholes, dark energy/matter, etc... reveals itself to you, complete with inescapable proof! It's not anything "out there" that will cause scientists to wait "centuries" for their Answers! It's their very own mirrors!

    Who reads what I write here? Besides my invited students and friends (fabulous educational tool to help them process the conventional resistance they'll encounter)... Probably far more than most would assume, since all over the Internet folks mention and link this site, and it doesn't make a lot of sense that sooooo many are involved in IONS retreats, conferences and activities, linking articles and activities and people to this board, without being curious enough to check out its mbs. Few, however, likely have the patience to put up with 2 or 3 people dominating the boards for years, chasing everybody away. I would suggest their varied insights would be invaluable!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Aug 05, 2014

    Dust, it's not about "self help!"

    It's about learning to process complex Universal *energy* in a totally different way than convention has locked itself into, which then exposes the higher mathematics that the Universe is using, language for what it really is, etc... ... ...

    Kinda like learning to UN-see the picture on your television enough to also see the pixels, and then learning to process how all life is made up of those "pixels," which then reveals even more... There's just soooo much to it all, way too much to express here in this post. But that is how you (generic) learn to process the Universe translucently, and how it becomes obvious that there is no such thing as "mysticism," because the more highly Conscious one becomes, the more it is *realized* that the "proof" itself is absolutely there, every step of the way, but one has to be Awake enough to see it! You have to be prepared to process the overall, all-inclusive "physical" fabric itself of the Universe from a far more complex physics than conventional minds allow themselves to see.

    Until you leave convention, it will always be a part of its trap that it appears conventional ways hold the only "proof." But conventional standards of "proof" ONLY prove and support...convention! NOT higher Universal Physics!

    The human element reflectively exposes the depths and heights of reasoning and feeling required to process the higher realities of time and space, dimensions, wormholes, etc... Humans, all sentients, are not separate from, but rather 100% completely immersed in, and manifesting because of, that all-inclusive Universal *fabric.*

    If you hold up your hand and stare at it long enough without blinking, you begin to lose convention's automatic, highly restricted, blind acceptance of it as "hand" and begin to notice its creature-like, claw-like appearance, which then begins to lift you out of the horse blinders convention has on your ability to process, suggesting that there is soooo muuuuch moooore going on than you've been led to believe and settle for! Having settled for conventional boundaries, you (generic) have locked yourself, your own inherent abilities and intelligence, into a teeny, tiny place in the Universe, which is why it is so hard for conventional (unconscious) minds to process "the bigger picture!"

    Continued...

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Aug 03, 2014

    There is nothing new about any one this. Dozens of self help book make the same mistake of believing they can direct other in the way your narrative attempts to do.
    Who are you addressing at this point with you narrative? Lurkers? Future lurkers?

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Aug 03, 2014

    Each person's "doing the work" needs to be ~ privately ~ accomplished, because otherwise it's like you're in therapy in front of the whole entire world, every detail, every moment, along the way! For real!

    Do you really want to discuss you mother/*mother*/ultimate innermost self (etc.) in front of that world?

    All throughout the "Consciousness 101..." thread I have repeatedly put forth every effort to protect participants (from themselves) as they work on reaching higher Consciousness.

    If you're not ready to apply the step-by-step process to yourself personally, confidentially, alone, being your own therapist, with everything you reflectively learn about yourself *within* to realize the Universe for what it reflectively is *without,* then perhaps reading some of the many books I've suggested (in the reading list and those mentioned in earlier posts there and elsewhere) will suffice for now, to build your confidence.

    Actually applying the process to yourself personally, which helps you to UN-project everything you've projected throughout your life, to become un-distracted, teaches you to experience thinking on a much more profound level than before, and helps you to feel your own feelings far more deeply than ever before (the genuine *keys* to traversing timeXspace), and when those happen, they unlock a world, a Universe, *the* Universe, that you never before could *realize (in the more shallow, conventional level of thought and feeling you've been trapped into**) has a completely different Presence about itself than anything convention has allowed anyone to see and experience.

    Everything you are looking for in your life as a sentient being, a human being, everything science is searching for, is right there, revealing itself to you, available to you whenever you're *ready!*

    You just have to want it ~ enough ~ to stop fighting off the Ultimate Messenger...YOU! ;)

    ** Hence, the "freedom" language often associated with Awakening.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Aug 01, 2014

    If you intend for your instruction to be meaningful is it not best to deposit them on to one discussion instead of decorating all the discussions with you message?

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Aug 01, 2014

    Sitting "in convention" amounts to sitting in the material world with my material body. The proof that there is something more awaits us all unless you can suggest evidence.
    But I have address this issue before. If we could plot the trajectory of a person in an objectively measured manner, measure the initial condition, we could also plot exactly the course corrections you are eluding to. Some may not be able to reach their goal without assistance., a teach or mentor. I do not find you to be providing either here.

    The point I'm making is that "doing the work" is an oversimplification of an abstraction.

    And besides, almost no one has engaged you in this.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Aug 01, 2014


    Continuing...

    Every movement through that very real wormhole is accomplished through that *balance!* When you cannot go left, cannot go right, cannot go foreward or back, the *energy* of that balance carries you into the next dimension/superimposed parallel world, for real, where everything happening all around you is ever-so-slightly redefined, more clearly defined...and the more *work* you do to process that newly realized environment into *balance* then "propels" you "even" further through that wormhole...and on and on and on...each dimension, each parallel, multiplying exponentially with the most extraordinary Answers about the Universe, what it is REALLY doing, what we reeeeaaaalllly are as entities within the process, sharing the process with ALL ELSE within it...

    I truly, genuinely hope for you guys that you don't miss it!

    There is really nothing "mystical" about it at all! The proof is right there, inescapably demonstrating itself, manifesting before your very eyes, like a living mathematics that has come to life so obviously much that it interacts with you! (Hence, the 3000 year old mathematical "I Ching"/Book of Changes still just as applicable as when it began) at every step along the way! You just have to allow yourself to actually *go there,* to realize yourself ~ worthy enough ~ to have "that much information" about your own life, your own reality, everyone's/everything's reality, the true Universal Physics Process!

    There's a reason someone has come into your life providing you with the direct path to the Answers! It's just how the Universe does what it does! That's a rare gift/opportunity most of the 99.9999% of the world doesn't have! So instead of trying to destroy the messenger, appreciate the message!

    Do you really wanna be the last to know?!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Aug 01, 2014

    You can't safely sit in convention expecting the proof to be handed to you! YOU have to actually behave yourself into actually *experiencing* that proof firsthand for yourself! The Universe made that rule, not me!

    The more you actually apply the physics (leaving unconscious convention) to yourself personally, the more you begin to see for yourself, directly and inescapably, the reflection of those physics "out there," (withinXwithout), and *realize* in every ounce of your being what the Universe itself is actually doing.

    You keep saying I'm not providing you with proof, but I have provided you with many lifetimes of proof! All you need to do is APPLY that proof to yourself, or apply YOURSELF to that proof!

    Becoming Conscious is like a scavenger hunt! I've told you where to go to find/unlock the clues (nuclear family, extended *relatives,* superimpositions to timeXspace, dimensions, etc.), and if and as you put forth the direct effort required by the Universe itself to actually apply those experiences to yourself, each effort is like you've been guided to an envelope or box that, when opened, reveals to you MANY MORE clues that carry you "even" further/*higher* to yet another and another and another and another... And with each success you realize that genuine Answers are multiplying exponentially all around you, and you realize that you've been living in a far more profound world all around you, a VERY REAL world/Universe, that you never "even" noticed before.

    It REALLY IS an ~ actual experience ~ of falling through a VERY REAL wormhole, into much, MUCH *higher truth* about life, about the world we live in, about the entire Universe itself, about yourself, about everyone, every thing, every event, every happening... and the ONLY requirement the Universe expects of you to see it, to realize yourself within it, an integral part of it all, is...*balance!*

    Continued...

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Jul 31, 2014

    I'm missing the point of the "Do the work!" bumper sticker message

  • NoetPoet Jul 30, 2014

    @RoS, got anything to back that up other than your own imaginary flights of fancy?

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Jul 30, 2014

    The more highly evolved/Enlightened/Conscious one becomes, from actually bothering to *do the work* required to *realize* the true Universal Physics Processes, the more the rules change/become far more complex/all-inclusive/highly demonstrative/manifesting relative to "scientific proof."

    Conventional rules for "scientific proof" are totally in place to protect ONLY unconscious convention and its equally unconscious sciences.

  • NoetPoet Jul 29, 2014

    @dustproduction
    "Interestingly, this website has a value of $52,150."

    Is that before or after all the anti-science nonsense posted in Discussions is taken into account?

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Jul 29, 2014

    Interestingly, this website has a value of $52,150.

    http://www.worthofweb.com/website-value/Noetic.org-

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Jul 27, 2014

    Re: Why has science founded itself upon its belief, FAITH, that the ONLY thing that matters is...matter?

    It examines the thing there is evidence of.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction May 19, 2014

    Re: "The primary mission of science must be that it relentlessly questions itself. Same for the scientist!"

    Where is this not the case? Example please.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

    "The concern with falsifiability gained attention by way of philosopher of science Karl Popper's scientific epistemology "falsificationism". Popper stresses the problem of demarcation—distinguishing the scientific from the unscientific—and makes falsifiability the demarcation criterion, such that what is unfalsifiable is classified as unscientific, and the practice of declaring an unfalsifiable theory to be scientifically true is pseudoscience. This is often epitomized in Wolfgang Pauli famously saying, of an argument that fails to be scientific because it cannot be falsified by experiment, "it is not only not right, it is not even wrong!"

  • frequencytuner Jan 20, 2014

    Great idea for a new topic.

  • NoetPoet Jan 19, 2014

    The following was posted by someone in another forum. I had to repost it here because it resonates perfectly with what I think IONS should be about, particularly the last paragraph:

    "Humans can potentially experience truly remarkable states of mind. Whoever has taken LSD or ecstacy knows that our brain can be influenced to behave in fascinating ways which one would not have thought are possible. Now I don't want to downplay the dangers and risks involved in using such drugs... But they are also highly effective ways of producing states of mind which lead many people to have deep spiritual experiences. By this I mean things like feeling one with the world around you, profound feelings of compassion, and an understanding of human beings and even animals on a level deeper than what the brain in a normal state could ever produce.

    "Now drugs are not the only way to achieve such states of mind (albeit the easiest). Many monks and Yogis in buddhist and hindu traditions have retreated into caves for years and done nothing but meditate every day, seeking spiritual enlightenment. When they come back, they often are true geniuses of compassion und human understanding. For example, after a buddhist monk was ..

    "Now, most people have spiritual experiences of some sort in the context of religion. A Christian who feels bliss while praying, say, may feel the presence of Jesus. The fact, however, that people of all religions across the world have such experiences makes it quite clear that these experiences have nothing to do with religion. Most religions are mutually exclusive. But if only one religion is right, that doesn't explain how billions of people of other religions throughout history have had these experiences. The connection between religion and spirituality is therefore an illusion, and a very unfortunate one. For it has not only led religious people to ascribe their experiences to wrong causes, it has also prevented science from studying the phenomenon.

    "Ultimately, all states of mind can be broken down to neurological processes in our brain. Scientific research could potentially show what ways of meditation work best for different people and how the brain can be influenced to alter our positive feelings, like compassion and empathy. We could have an entire scientific discipline of mysticism. Since spiritual experiences belong to the most valuble experiences we have, it is very unfortunate that we are hardly using this potential. The important thing to note in all this is that at no time do we have to believe in anything on bad evidence in order to strive for feelings of spiriuality. Once we realize that it is all in our brain, we can leave aside all religious dogma and superstition and honestly and openly explore the remarkable potential of our brain. "

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Jan 05, 2014

    Continued...

    Science can neither just conveniently claim ultimate authority, as if some elite social status, nor sit on that authority without relentlessly questioning itself, and allowing itself to be questioned. Imagine a government trying to pull that off! Noetic science must likewise remain open to question.

    The way to teach is to clearly define, and then...directly involve... your students, such that they become teachers right back...with YOU as their student! Are you up to the challenge?

    So, don't ...TELL... the Universe what it "HAS TO" be, as your original foundation, and don't demand authority without SHARING that authority with everyone else. Guide them toward HOW you know what you know, so they can know it, too/2! ;)

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Jan 05, 2014

    Continued...

    That higher processing requires higher Consciousness/Awareness of the Universal Physics. None of these higher realizations/awarenesses are just invented outta thin air, but rather adhere to far more complex and consistent processing than convention and its sciences allow themselves to process.

    Surely a scientist would agree that simply not allowing oneself to *go there* is not proof that *there* doesn't exist!

    Time and space, as convention has been told, are relative, but yet conventional scientists, as do most other folks, treat them like they're locked in place. With higher Consciousness/Awareness, those boundaries are broken down, uncongealed, and traversed further. Enlightenment is the ability to process that translucence, to recognize the reality of wormholes, for instance, in everyday activities, etc.. Conventional science so adheres to such a limited definition of "physicality" that it cannot recognize why it keeps running into its dreaded "philosophy!" It has left/"left" (intellectualized) the other half of itself out/"out!"

    Also, recognize that getting lost in what convention has done with language and its obsession with stereotyping and labeling things (by era, fad, fashion, misinterpretation, etc.), breathing life into stories they tell themselves around those things, is nothing more than precisely that! For example, the mockery that unconscious convention has made of "precognition," mistaking it with "fantasy" as opposed to a legitimate way of detecting events before they manifest, as I've mentioned above relative to earthquakes, or pre-manifestation. You have to understand what folks and societies ...do...with what's immediately available to them, and not dismiss the overall concept, or that they are ...trying... to process concepts as best they can. Those unfortunately fad-stereotyped labels/concepts are reflections of their own inherent physics they don't otherwise know how to process. The physics behind those concepts require redefinition, not "new age" name calling!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Jan 05, 2014

    Conventional science, as with many fundamentalist religions, has inadvertently founded itself upon FAITH, belief, assumption, projection, and becomes irate when it is questioned. Why?

    If it's legit, it can stand up to any and all questioning, and openly welcomes it, if for nothing more than additional proof of that legitimacy.

    The primary mission of science must be that it relentlessly questions itself. Same for the scientist!

    It isn't a valid science if it is easily threatened and expects, as do many fundamentalists, that everyone simply fall into place around it, without fluently and exhaustively reasoning, exploring, questioning, wondering, etc... Scientists should know that neurons and neural pathways can't just suddenly redirect their neuro-chemical components/status at the drop of a hat, to conform to conventional science's need for folks to dutifully rush to conform.

    The very first step in your argument should be in your clearly defining the ...foundation... of science, not a rush to claim results rooted in that foundation, without accountability.

    Why has science founded itself upon its belief, FAITH, that the ONLY thing that matters is...matter? Why does it have such a limited definition of what constitutes the "physical?" For example, geologists wait for earthquakes to happen, to have something to measure on their instruments, but events occur because ....the conditions are in place for them to occur.... . Events don't just magically appear! With higher-than-convention processing, those conditions can be realized as congealing, forming, approaching, looooong BEFORE they "ultimately" CONGEAL to manifest as an earthquake, or even a conventional hint of an earthquake.

  • NoetPoet Jan 05, 2014

    Indeed. We may be driven by our beliefs and passions to seek the truth, but in seeking the truth we must be prepared for the possibility that it will not turn out to be what we wanted or expected it to be.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Jan 02, 2014


    Well stated. I have been commenting here for maybe two years and I am view by some as a negative force in these discussions because I embrace the role that science has to play in the discovery of our human potential, and in understanding the physical world and our role in it.
    Let's underscore the fact that while many believe that there is more to this universe, IONS seeks to use the scientific method to learn these unknown truths. Beliefs have their place then, as they indicate a direction we might choice to look in. But we must also embrace science as a tool to explore the unknown. There is no separating these two ideas.

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