Discussions

The dreaded DSM, what does it stand for? Damn silly method. I have a good quote here from Jung,

"It is a fashiionable stupidity to regard what can't be explained as a fraud"

Sometimes I think we have devolved from a divine state of being rather than evolved from monkeys.Here's a quote from me,
"The most costly thing in the universe is ignorance and the most priceless thing is it's opposite which is knowledge."

Tale a look at this:

http://www.rivier.edu/faculty/pcunningham/Research/Chapter_11_Transpersonality_Disorders.pdf

I think for people struggling and feeling suicidal, meditation may not be good. It depends on the person's constitutuion and temperament. When I was like this I ended up in hospital because I was getting psychically attacked by something. The psychiatrists did the only thing they know how which is drugs. The story they gave me was I had schizophrenia, it was unwise of me to tell them about some of my experiences. They made all sorts of assumptions based on their definition of what is 'acceptable'. I still have this story pinned on me but I don't go to them anymore because in hospital I started painting again. I painted my way out of there. I found a social enterprise and continued painting. For me it was better than meditation because it produces something material which gives a sense of accomplishement and also a record of your current process, psychic impressions made into symbol and pattern. Better than therapists. I sold my first paintings shortly after.

I also found a way to taper off the medications using a protocol I researched and tried. I tapered very slowly over a 6 month period with a supplement protocol. This provides some physical support while I sorted out my attitude toward life which is the spiritual part. The doctors are well meaning but they understand neither what causes illness or what causes health. They not only do not know that a person has a spirit and they think that nutrition is not important, so they address neither element of the human-the body, or the being-the spirit. They would see improvements if they forced the patients to take supplements as well. Many of the patients had shocking diets and they said nothing about it and did nothing about it. Many of the patients had no code for living. Their parents did not instill it in them and the rest of society also failed to instill it.

I read some philosophy books which taught me to ask a question to myself. ' what are my highest values?' because your authentic self is defined by your highest vaules if you can explicitly state them, well, it helped to know and it pointed me back to myself. I still don't know exactly what I'm doing here on this planet but I feel like I should just do my best and learn about the things that are interesting to my mind. I think about the nature of creation, like that comment above about the supreme. I think most are all looking for something to admire and respect and something to help us focus on virtue. Something heroic maybe. Something inspiring that gives life meaning and makes us feel worthwhile. Maybe the universe is neutral and is waiting for a human mind to come along and give it meaning and then it comes alive.

I have many friends who have similar experiences and it is not uncommon for me to experience some of them as well--especially seeing from my peripheral vision. My children have been away at college and my eldest daught has a life size doll she made of Victor Hugo upstairs and sometimes I will text her and tell her to tell him to go back to bed (even though she is away at college) because it sounds like he is moving around up there. I don't think he really is but I also know that consciousnesses exist all around us and I don't know if they sometimes become more solid than at other times and make the noises.

Like you they do not frighten me.

What you did not say was whether you were doing any deliberate work to become enlightened or if other changes were happening in your life.

I have been and see correlations between changing my vibration and these experiences. I have had a clairaudient experience as well.

What I would not do is tell a western trained physician about these experiences.

I do have a good friend who is both Eastern and Western trained, a M.D. and she and I have discussions but she also communicates with non-physical entities so she is not going to give me pills or hospitalize me for being open about such experiences.

The wisest people in my circle are all able to communicate with non-physical entities in some way, shape or form.

I've had discussions with some of the more intuitive among my friends and those raised in an environment that was supportive of their gifts have told me that they have met others with gifts who were labeled and had negative attention from their mis-understood gifts. What that does is tune them to negative energy where the voices then match their new point of attraction and are not friendly. Which worsens the labels -- creating a downward spiral.

♡ Jeanine

Radical Shrink? I guess. I worked in mental health for many years, pre and post DSM. I had the good fortune to be educated during the 60's when we were cautioned about the potential constraints upon our own thinking when we indulged in 'diagnosis'. My 2nd mentor suggested to me that rather than the content of any remarks I might make, it was quite possible that it was the love and respect with which I worked that did the real 'work'.
Robert Whitaker (Mad in America), Peter Breggin MD (Your Drug May be Your Problem) and Grace Jackson, MD (Rethinking Psychiatry) have each published useful books re the problems that haunt psychiatry.
I have worked with folks whose difficulties were characterized as 'psychosis'. One thing I did note and to some degree it's a problem for all of us. It is, 'from where does our experience really come?' Are we tuning into a larger consciousness some of the time? All of the time? Do we know the difference? I am assuming that there is a difference as we each go about the business of living our temporarily individualized lives.
What I do know from personal and professional experience is that sometimes our processing of the 'data/experience' can be overwhelmed and then we do indeed have a problem. As you read this please join me as I wish Maggie well.

Yes, Dusty. It'd be nice to hear from Maggie and let us know how she's doing.

Its been over a year and Maggie has not commented.

I would suggest checking out what kind of automobile the good doctor is driving before you waste your money and time, dear Maggie. Despite some of the discouraging comments I've read here, you are most certainly smart enough to manage your own affairs and to seek help form wherever you see fit.

BTW - I don't believe in lawyers either, and I don't mind telling a few of you where you can stick your supoenas. Besides, I only possess spiritual currency so it wouldn't be worth your while (ie: $$$$$$$, I don't have any).

The fact is, for many thousands of years people have been surviving quite well without this pharmaceutical garbage that's only been around for a few decades. Prior to that, they'd've burned you as a heretic.

Some of you will have heard of the book by Robert Whitaker, Anatomy of an Epidemic. In this book, Whitaker provides convincing evidence that many of the present illnesses labelled by categories in the Psychiatrist's Bible, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual(DSM) IV (soon to be V), are actually instances of an overwhelming and possibly incurable disorder I will call Polypharmacy Psychiatric Drug Disorder (PPDD). In short, long-term treatment by psychiatric drugs, whether they be stimulants, tranquilisers, antipsychotics or antidepressants, will over time retune the relevant neurotransmitter system so that the affected system becomes increasingly more sensitive to the neurotransmitter

There is no such thing as mental illness, psychosis or anything else. It is all about toxic relationship and the way an unsuspecting person will react. You can certainly do something about it and without drugs once you know what it's about. You are welcomed to visit my blog at http://kyrani99.wordpress.com/ where I am discussing these matters in some detail.

Hi Maggie, I notice your post is a few months old and I hope things are working out for you ok. I guess I have chosen to join this discussion to share a similar experience, I have no idea whether you are suffering psychosis nor am I qualified to say. A couple of years ago I found myself in a highly stressful situation involving my children - where by I was worried beyond belief. Similar things occurred to me. I would be woken by my Mother calling my name (she isn't deceased), footsteps running up and down my hallway, also on the roof at night, security screen door been violently shaken at night (I live rurally no neighbors) and things moving in the corner of my eye. The weird thing is......other people I live with heard the same things and had their own experiences. A paranormal investigator suggested my levels of stress may have been providing energy for an entity. Once I knew my children we're safe it all stopped immediately.
Whether it was because I consciously took on board that i am responsible for these happenings that it stopped or the the relief that my children were ok and I stopped producing the energy - I really don't know.
I don't consider this an issue personally, especially to the point where I'd seek medical advice - it has made me more aware about dealing with my stress and not letting things build up. This seems to work for me.
Take care, Manawa

What concerns me right now is we are not hearing from Maggie Please let us know how things are going..

Boy am I glad to see someone here with your expertise Sunshadow, not to mention your ability to communicate clearly and fully.

Actually, in cases where someone is genuinely psychotic, it is counterproductive to engage in visualizations and meditations sometimes, and I see that some people have just recommended that to her.

The main thing is, it's really impossible to know if someone is psychotic based on as little info as we have here, and even well meaning advice could be harmful. That's why a lay person cannot read the DSM-IV, for example, and accurately self-diagnose--not to say that you can't read it and get an idea that something might apply to you. We need someone trained in diseases of the mind and brain to evaluate us if we think something is really wrong or unusual with our experiences.

That said, psychiatrists are not always 100% right any more than any other MD is, or anymore than any alternative medicine/healer may be. Thorough assessment is in order. Maggie is correct to wonder if her doubting is part of the psychosis. It may be, or it may not be. She sounds rational and focused and her verbal presentation does not seem problematic, but then, if she's taking medication that is helping her condition, that may be why.

Well I must humbly apologize if Maggie or others believe I was diagnosing her condition. I rather suggested she try other opinions and suggested Mantra meditation which is universal to everyone and in no way bad for her. It's a spiritual practice that is acts independently of the material condition of the body and mind. Sorry if that was misunderstood.

I agree with Saoirse. It's not possible to diagnose with as little information as Maggie has been able to provide in this online forum. But I understand her questioning, so I'd like to offer her a little input.

My background is social work. I'm a licensed mental health professional and have worked in mental health for 15 years, both inpatient psych, and in a large non-profit community mental health center. Also, I have a love and appreciation for non-traditional healing practices, and pagan spiritual beliefs. So, I figure I've got a reasonably balanced perspective to offer you.

Maggie: you said that the experiences you have had are both auditory and visual, correct? If I were screening you, I'd be interestsed to know at what age you began to have the experiences; were you using any kind of drugs at that point in your life--& that includes both prescription, over the counter, and street drugs; is there any family history of psychosis or thought disorder in your family; have you had a thorough medical examination to rule out any medical causes for the symptoms; what is your history of emotional and physical trauma; have you been exploring alternative forms of consciousness such as astral projection, etc.

You said that none of the experiences were frightening to you. So, how did you wind up before a psychiatrist? Something prompted you to seek medical attention...was it you, or loved ones, who made this happen? I'd want to know more about that. At the time that you were experiencing the symptoms, did you also have any changes in your mood...from a normal mood to a depressed or highly elevate mood, or vice versa? Also, did you have these visual and auditory experiences only while in your own home? Or did you have them in other places too? Do you have them only when you are alone, or do you have them while others are around you? And did you ever confuse them for what most people would call "reality", meaning, a voice or an image that is clearly identifiable to a person or animal in your environment? Have the symptoms abated since taking medication?

Those are a few of the questions I'd ask someone I was assessing before I would even attempt to suggest a possible diagnosis.

I don't know if you have a true psychosis, or not, or if it's due to a natural chemical imbalance in your brain, or an artifically induced one, or trauma induced by history....or if you are having an awakening of extrasensory perception, for example. Too much unknown yet to hazard any suggestion in a responsible way.

Know this, though. It's perfectly normal for people to question their diagnosis. Just be sure that you are careful about what advice you choose to follow...and why you're choosing it. Sometimes we hear what we want to hear, not what we need to hear. Your MD might be wrong, but then again, s/he might be right. Proceed with caution if you're thinking of discontinuing your medication.

Actually I think should echo that observation that we should feel quite right in asking for some more details when someone wants advice of this nature. And if you are still following this thread Maggie, then don't be shy about providing any other little peripheral details. Particularly, did your therapist believe that your experiences were decreasing your ability to function in either public or private contexts?
It sounds like you needn't worry from what you've said so far, because in psychopathology at the moment most sensory experiences outside the normal range are considered as "illness" (even though many are actually a sign or being further ahead of your fellow humans is some respects).

I have friends who have been put on inhibitory medications despite the fact that they were perfectly sane and functional people, and one time the prescription came at the behest of a Christian mother who didn't approve of her child's abilities. Many emerging next level functions of the brain are no doubt seen as a "chemical imbalance," but as psychology continues to shift from a "normative development" model to a "positive development" model, the experiences of people like yourself will be approached differently.

>I'll probably get eaten alive for this
Nah, I'm vegetarian. :)

Saoirse: Thanks for the comment. Maggie's explained her condition and symptoms quite clearly, just as she would if she were sitting at a doctors office, so to say just from one post one cannot understand her condition is not entirely true. I simply suggested that she find some professional in other lines of treatment to take their opinions and try their treatments to see what helps. It's not a question of bashing medical establishment for the sake of it, its almost common knowledge to get a second opinion. How many times have we seen one doctor say one thing and the next doctor gives a completely opposite diagnosis. Still the alopathy opinion that she has been given may not be the best since western medical sciences arent yet able to accept a spiritual realty, or even just a subtle material reality, of which the mind (and illnesses of the mind) are a part of. According to current western sciences, there is only the gross physical platform (1) -- whereas Ayurveda, for example, treats diseases with an appreciation of these other subtle sheaths covering the conscious spiritual self:

1 annamaya-kosha : physical
2 pranamaya- kosha : energy
3 manomaya- kosha : mental
4 vijñanamaya- kosha: wisdom/realization
5 anandamaya- kosha : bliss in love for God

I'm sure our ION'ers can attent to various alternative healings having good effect where alopathy has failed to provide satisfying results.

But apart from trying to treat this particular problem which is really just a symptom of the universal issue of suffering. According to Vedic knowledge, this world we're living in, is a place of suffering, and we're not meant to be under these sufferings, but we're accepting this position due to ignorance of our spiritual self. We're thinking I'm just this temporary body and this is it. So the solution to this problem of suffering is to return to our spiritual identity and to do that the recommendation is maha-mantra meditation or chanting God's names. I'm not sure which meditation you are referring to that is harmful, but the meditation im referring to is not just for Maggie, it's universal and beneficial for all of us. Spiritual sound vibration has a direct effect of cleansing the consciousness and once the consciousness is purified then one qualifies to return back to the spiritual realm at the end of this life. Otherwise one continues to suffer here in its unlimited variety, like stress and nightmares.

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I'll probably get eaten alive for this, but does it not seem a little dangerous to be diagnosing someone based on a single post on a web forum? I get that it's a great opportunity to bash the medical "establishment," but there's no way to know from one forum post what the poster's medical condition might be, and there's also no way for her to know whether the people here are in any way qualified to diagnose her issues. Most of the advice is probably not harmful, but. for example, if the poster is having dissociative episodes, meditation can actually make it worse. Providing emotional support is great. I'm just not sure that we're really in a position to determine whether the poster does or does not have a chemical imbalance that needs to be addressed. So... I'm going to suggest that maybe a little caution is in order as far as dispensing medical advice?

Hi Maggie,

Our Ions group in St. Louis is going to watch a movie called Wake Up. I have watched a portion of it online. It is available to watch instantly if you have access to a computer or if it agrees with your computer. You can also purchase the dvd online. It is about a young man with similar experiences to yours only his are much more pronounced. The documentary is his journey of trying to "understand" his condition. It is very compelling. There is apparently a thought about being stuck between two dimensions.

Wow, some good advice so far :-) You aren't "psychotic" at all, as that denotes someone who can't cope with the experiences you describe. If you aren't afraid of such "quantum phenomena" and the like, than I'd say you probably have an above-average degree of mental stability, or in other words your body is handling incoming stimuli correctly, efficiently, and maintaining homeostasis.
I have known a couple of friends with circumstances similar to yours, one who further developed their capacity and another who simply lived with it as it was and didn't choose to evolve it further. Both are living perfectly stable lives, and each had their own little ways of "staying grounded," whether meditating on becoming wiser and more in-tune with life, or by simply enjoying the company of upbeat friends. These are the kinds of practices that even people without psychic development use to "feel more grounded," and while I think you will be fine and healthy either way, they usually make day-to-day life go even more smoothly.

Peace sister ;-)

Dear Maggie. There are few alternatives to try and I would encourage you to do so -- certainly doesnt seem like you're crazy at all. Integrative health treatment is often better than a single line of treatment -- particularly allopathy whose action is best suited on the gross bodily platform. It's unfortunate but sometimes the medication rather than curing, makes one feel more sick and depressed.

One option is that there are people who are able to detect if there is some external influences affecting you. This is a serious consideration and I would have some local demonologist or healer come over to your house and check. Other healers can detect your prana and aura and find any misbalances in them and help from that angle. Ayurvedic doctors can help balance your doshas. All these may help, you have to try out various things and see what works to solve the misbalance. Others on this forum are more knowledge in these areas and may be able to give you more detail.

But apart from these various things you may try, its important to understand the bigger picture. The reality is that we enter this lifetime with a stock of karmic results from our own past activities from past lives that are due to us and this manifests itself in a certain amount of happiness and distress in this life. In one sense we have little control over this -- try as we might to avoid or adjust our sufferings in various ways, it manifests itself somehow or another in various physical or mental trauma. We have to tolerate.

What's more important then is to understand that we are spiritual beings made up of consciousness and have little to do with the sufferings and joys on this material platform, but because we identify very strongly with this body and this material environment, we are affected by the various karmic reactions that in our own ignorance, we ourselves incur. It's this misidentification that is the root of our ignorance and suffering.

Through spiritual knowledge, practice and introspection we can come to understand that we have a spiritual body and mind that is separate from the material body and mind. We can see how these various things are coming into our consciousness and we have nothing to do with it. We are simply observing it.

It would extremely beneficial for you to start meditation. The best type of meditation is that focused on the Supreme, because the Supreme Source is a person who is fully pure and by association with Him through meditation, we also become pure/spiritual and this clears away all our karma and reconnects us -- balances us. The most effective way to connect in meditation is to chant God's names. The fact is we do need shelter in this dark universe and if we cry out to the Source for it -- help, light and love will certainly come.

By this process of self-realization or bhakti-yoga we can come to purify our consciousness and cure our spiritual psychosis that all of us are suffering from. I hope something helps.

Dear Maggie, with great love I would encourage you to explore the 'something else'...what if you follow your intuition with the understanding that there is nothing to be afraid of? Maybe you are multidimensional, maybe you are actually mentally 'well'! The veils are coming down and we 3D humans will have much greater access to the other dimensions. Fear keeps us grounded in this plane but LOVE will help you to raise your vibration and join and see clearly what exists in the outer layers! There are posts on this website of many that are awakening and also of the new children who have never been asleep, (unfortunately they are often medicated as well...). It is your birthright to live consciously as your authentic self!
love to you on your journey from Gretchen Grace!