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Consciousness in the After Life

Posted Nov. 29, 2013 by mrmathew1963 in Open

commented on Dec. 8, 2013
by frequencytuner

Quote

19

Written by Mathew Naismith

Synchronicity raises its head again; while in discussion about there being consciousness outside of the brain on an IONS site a magazine that my wife & I subscribe too arrived & on the cover of this magazine was the heading, Life After Death, it’s about a neurosurgeon’s own OBE. This is quite interesting because it usually needs well educated people to experience these kinds of things first hand before they will even consider their existence However a Dr Sam Parnia is doing just that. I should mention here, being well educated doesn’t mean you know more than less educated people it just means at times one can only reason to set learnt mode of thought which can be egotistically driven, once you bring in egotism you bring in doubt on any findings or research conducted. In this case, for neurosurgeon Eben Alexander, he was lucky enough to experience life after so called death for himself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ingrid-peschke/near-death-experiences_b_4151093.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Alexander_(author)

Neurologist Oliver Sacks is sceptical of what Eden is saying here however Dr Parnia is researching such claims by a simple test of placing a random pictures above beds of people who experience OBE’S. These findings are yet to be published however this doesn’t disclaim what thousands of people like Eden experience firsthand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Parnia

We could say here that any findings or research conducted by Dr Parnia can be again influenced by egotism however it’s a little less likely because it’s not too egotistical to be a laughing stock within your own profession. Even by researching such phenomena would denote a lesser chance of egotism hindering any true findings.

While working in the welfare arena twice over in my fifty years I have quite often witnessed how egotism & taught set modes of thought can influence learned people’s judgment, if you haven’t experienced anything firsthand it’s nearly impossible to make fair unbiased judgement. The strangest thing I have witnessed is learned people actually having these experiences & not changing the way they reason. I have often asked myself why & the answer that keeps coming up is egotism, if you think you’re above most other people you will keep making misjudgements which is driven by egotism.

I’m not university trained however I was offered a job in charge of my section, while working with people with various disabilities, over & above university trained people for the main reason I didn’t have a set reasoning process or egotism to hinder my judgment plus of course I had firsthand experiences.

This sort of judgmental egotistic attitude with a number or learned people isn’t just to do with people who have a higher level of education but people in any arena that takes a higher level of education to know. I have come across this on spiritual sites, if you’re not learned in certain arenas you’re usually ignored because how could one possibly know without studying. Neurosurgeon Eben didn’t need to study to know what he experienced & neither did thousands of others who have experienced OBE’s first hand. Consciousness does obviously exist outside of the body but some people’s egos tell them otherwise.

  • 19 Comments  
  • frequencytuner Dec 08, 2013

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4FaDMak-TQ

    Reference to DMT: The Spirit Molecule.

    THE answer, nothing else.

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 08, 2013

    I would also like to add here anyone who believes all OBE's are delusional episodes seem to only be reasoning deductively.

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Deductive reasoning determines whether the truth of a conclusion can be determined for that rule, based SOLEY on the truth of the premises. Example: "When it rains, things outside get wet. The grass is outside, therefore: when it rains, the grass gets wet." Mathematical logic and philosophical logic are commonly associated with this style of reasoning.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Dec 08, 2013

    The Answer relative to "surface language" can be found in my new thread, "Consciousness 101..."

    :)

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 07, 2013

    G'day frequencytuner

    Yes DMT is certainly a possibility that should be taken seriously however how can DMT explain people who explain precisely what went on around them when experiencing an actual OBE? It doesn't of course.

    http://paranormal.about.com/od/outofbodyexp/a/tales_09_01_02t.htm

    The following link is quite objective & worth a read.

    http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=70

    This shows nothing is concrete either way however how do people who are unconscious describe in detail surgical procedures on themselves?

    The following findings from Dr Lommel are quite interesting as well.

    http://www.horizonresearch.org/sdarticle.pdf

    I think to suggest outright that all OBE’s are brought on by delusional episodes is quite unfounded obviously & shows a subjective view which aren’t usually worth noting.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Dec 07, 2013

    There are some interesting experiments demonstrated here in this video. The entire video is a discussion of consciousness but starting at minute 29:00 there is some research specific to the virtual aspects of our conscious experience.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TTDYlR3n6A

    The experience demonstrates the sensation of an out of body, in fact in an alternative bodily experience. But is is merely an illusion bases in orientation to a self.

  • frequencytuner Dec 06, 2013

    For anyone interested in this topic, a detailed study of DMT would be of benefit. This is the cause.

  • Anonymous Icon

    john1969 Dec 03, 2013

    "what do you mean about surface language?" he would be talking about math.

  • Anonymous Icon

    john1969 Dec 02, 2013

    Hello Mr./Miss ROS
    I really would like some guidance.
    Grain of sand, mustard seed, string, vibrations, T.V., radio, news paper, lions, cats,bees, super bees, GOOGLE, math I really do stink at.
    T.V. show Fringe..... also it is like my T.V. (head) is stuck in transmit, and I have no reception.
    Thank you

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 01, 2013

    G'day Ros

    Sorry but I'm a little ignorant with this kind of stuff, what do you mean about surface language?

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Dec 01, 2013

    Because the analogies/superimpositions of where you were BEFORElife become the physics that reveal where you will be in your AFTERlife!!

    It's very multidimensionally mathematical, but the surface language inadvertently "tells on" EVERYTHING!

  • mrmathew1963 Dec 01, 2013

    G'day Miss/Mrs Ros

    Probably having a drink with my mates I would say, I have no idea actually, why?

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Dec 01, 2013

    Where were you before you were born?

  • mrmathew1963 Nov 29, 2013

    G'day Dusty

    Are we able to explain without a doubt how the universe was created? The answer is no & this is of physicality so how are we able to measure anything not of a physical nature? Yes what you have stipulated here makes sense however this is still only going by what we can measure, what about what we can't measure or explain just like the creation of the universe?

    Your having trouble reasoning beyond deductive reasoning & if you prefer to reason only deductively that's fair enough but others prefer a more open reasoning process to think by.

    Here is a site address that will explain your question; "How is he able to recall the experience he claims to have had?"

    If you don't believe in chakras don't read on however I'm not an absolute firm believer myself just open to various possibilities mainly because of my inductive reasoning. Again just because science is unable to measure these things at the time being doesn't prove they don't exist at all in my mind,

    http://www.esotericscience.org/article14a.htm

    I'm using inductive reasoning which is a lot more open minded than deductive reasoning, the way this site explains OBE's to me is also a reasonable deduction to consider however I do realise it probably want be for you. One reasoning process isn't wrong or right over the other just different within it's deductive reasoning processes.

    I should mention here, yes I can remember some of my OBE's experiences, when your looking at both your wife's & your own body you know it's not delusional, trust me.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 29, 2013

    My question is "What Alexander is recalling is not the experience but the memory of the experience. How is the memory formed if he was in a coma? How is he able to recall the experience he claims to have had?
    It is reasonable to consider the following:

    Making a memory requires the production of proteins at synapses. These proteins then change the strength of the connection or pathway. In nerve cells the production process for memory proteins is already pre-assembled at the synapse but stalled just before completion, awaiting the proper signals to finish, thereby speeding up the entire process. When it comes time to making the memory, the process is switched on and the protein is made in a flash. The mechanism is analogous to a pre-fab home, or pre-made pancake batter that is assembled in advance and then quickly completed in the correct location at the correct time.

    (The image shows a neuron.)
    Researchers discovered the mRNA travels to the synapses already attached to the ribosome, with the protein production process stopped just before completion of the product. The ‘pre-assembly’ process then waits for synaptic signals before re-activating to produce a lot of proteins quickly in order to form a memory. Credited to McGill University.
    “It’s not only important to make proteins in the right place but, it’s also important not to make the protein when it’s the wrong time,” says Dr. Wayne Sossin, neuroscientist at The Neuro and senior investigator on the paper. “This is especially important with nerve cells in the brain, as you only want the brain to make precise connections. If this process is indiscriminate, it leads to neurological disease. This mechanism to control memory protein synthesis solves two problems: 1) how to make proteins only at the right time and 2) how to make proteins as quickly as possible in order to tightly associate the synaptic change with the experience/memory.

    http://neurosciencenews.com/neuroscience-synaptic-plasticity-memory-proteins-511/


  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 29, 2013

    RE: no I don't think your ego would want to know the outcome
    I have stated my position.
    You are allow to think what you want.

  • mrmathew1963 Nov 29, 2013

    G'day Dusty

    I'm not going to be enticed in an egotistical battle with you again Dusty, however; so bringing neurosurgeons & doctors research that haven't been mentioned before to my knowledge into the equation isn't anything new to you? It would seem to me just because you have had very little if any of these experiences yourself you’re going to subjectively attack any view contrary to your own beliefs!!

    The research, I understand by Dr Parnia, is still being formulated/complied.

    It's not your logical reasoning that is shared by others but your notable subjective illogical reasoning that is shared by others in my mind.

    And no I don't think your ego would want to know the outcome sadly enough however I hope I am wrong in this.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 29, 2013

    Wrong again, I would love to "know" the outcome. But you are only writing (again) about your subjective view of things and not bringing anything new to the discussion. (Instead, you indulge in the 'disease' of complaining about me.)

    What "research is still being conducted & formulated?"
    There is all there references on the Wiki site and you have not referenced one, perhaps not even read the Wiki entry on Parnia.

    ^ Parnia, Sam; Spearpoint, K., Fenwick, P. (2007). "Near death experiences, cognitive function and psychological outcomes of surviving cardiac arrest". Resuscitation 74 (2): 215–21. doi:10.1016/j.resuscitation.2007.01.020. PMID 17416449.
    Jump up ^ Parnia, Sam (2007). "Do reports of consciousness during cardiac arrest hold the key to discovering the nature of consciousness?". Medical hypotheses. doi:10.1016/j.mehy.2007.01.076.
    Jump up ^ Greyson, Bruce; Parnia,S., Fenwick, P. (2008). "Visualizing Out-of-Body Experience in the Brain". New England Journal of Medicine 358 (8): 855; author reply 856. doi:10.1056/NEJMc073315. PMID 18287611.
    Jump up ^ Adams, Tim (6 April 2013). "Sam Parnia – the man who could bring you back from the dead", The Observer.
    Jump up ^ Notable Men & Women of Iranian Descent
    Jump up ^ Dr. Sam Parnia
    Jump up ^ Parnia, Sam; Fenwick, P. (2002). "Near death experiences in cardiac arrest: visions of a dying brain or visions of a new science of consciousness". Resuscitation 52.
    Jump up ^ Parnia, Sam; Waller, D.G., Yeates,R., Fenwick, P. (2001). "A qualitative and quantitative study of the incidence, features and aetiology of near death experiences in cardiac arrest survivors". Resuscitation. doi:10.1016/S0300-9572(00)00328-2.
    Jump up ^ Parnia, Sam (2012). "Cerebral oximetry – The holy grail of non-invasive cerebral perfusion monitoring in cardiac arrest or just a false dawn?". Resuscitation. doi:10.1016/j.resuscitation.2011.10.021.
    Jump up ^ "Horizon Research Foundation". Retrieved 23 February 2013.
    Jump up ^ Beyond the Mind Body Problem
    Jump up ^ Back from the Dead: Resuscitation Expert Says End Is Reversible Der Spiegel, 29 July 2013

    What is there to discuss here?

    Even your statement "you make no logical sense what so ever." needs to be understand in the subjective: My logic make no sense TO YOU. It is in fact a logic that is share with many, just not you and the small margin of other that share your beliefs.

  • mrmathew1963 Nov 29, 2013

    G'day Dusty

    You would like to think so but if research is still being performed on this matter how can you say we have flogged this enough, I don’t think you really want to know the outcome do you? Just because neurosurgeon Eben Alexander suggest you are wrong within your one sided outlook & deductive reasoning doesn’t mean we have flogged this enough.

    Actually Dusty you make no logical sense what so ever in stating; “hasn't this topic been flogged to "death" when research is still being conducted & formulated. I would suggest that you evaluate your own reasoning processes instead of everybody else’s in the future because you make no logical sense what so ever.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 29, 2013

    Hasn't this topic been flogged to "death" in these discussion? See http://noetic.org/discussions/open/265/ "Neurosurgeon has NDE"
    You even commented at the discussion.

    The open question regarding NDE is, "How are memories of the experience transfer from working memory into long term memory?"

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