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Contemporary Scientific Methodologies in Psychic Research

Posted Nov. 11, 2013 by Drdawood2014 in Open

commented on May 11, 2014
by Hellseer

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To what extent the contemporary scientific methodologies used in psychic research are leading successfully to find the answers for the questions concerning spiritual aspects . If the for a limited extent,is there possibility of a new innovative methods can be suggested?

  • 42 Comments  
  • Hellseer May 11, 2014

    This initial question is interesting since there's many para psychology departments and they write lots of papers, one of the worst surely being Koestler who have been droning on about dream for years.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 15, 2013

    I am aware of Dimethyltryptamine

    "When ingested, DMT acts as a psychedelic drug.[7] Depending on the dose and method of administration, its subjective effects can range from short-lived milder psychedelic states to powerful immersive experiences; these are often described as a total loss of connection to external reality and an experience of encountering indescribable spiritual/alien realms."

    Ralph Abraham, who has been involved in the research frontier and the development of dynamical systems theory in the 1960s and 1970s, aas well as a consultant on chaos theory and its applications in numerous fields, such as medical physiology, ecology, mathematical economics, psychotherapy, etc has this video about it on YouTube.

    http://thespiritmolecule.com/html/index.php

    I think there is even an old discussion about it on these boards.

  • frequencytuner Nov 14, 2013

    By soul we can say a spark of life that animates the body and connects it with the earth and all of creation, yes, that is what this gland does. It is the doorway. I am surprised your research has not stumbled on DMT yet. Melatonin is to assist the sleep wake cycle to follow the earth's biorhythm. DMT is released at the time of birth and death.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 14, 2013

    Also, "The pineal gland is now known to be the major source of melatonin production in the body. It is full size in children, a size it maintains throughout adulthood -- although its weight can drop significantly starting with puberty. And it is not unusual for the gland to literally calcify in many adults. The gland most likely plays a significant role in sexual maturation, circadian rhythm and inducing sleep, and in seasonal affective disorder and depression.
    In (other) animals, it plays a key role in hibernation.Even more interesting is the fact that in some lower vertebrates the pineal gland actually has a well-developed eye-like structure and is considered by some scientists to be the evolutionary forerunner of the modern eye. In other vertebrates, though not organized as an eye, it functions as a light receptor."

    So, is this to suggest that other animals, including "some lower veertebrates" have a soul?

  • frequencytuner Nov 14, 2013

    Entheogen. If I am correct in my assumption about you dust, this will be the ticket: Entheogen.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 14, 2013

    "The pineal gland is a tiny organ in the center of the brain that played an important role in Descartes' philosophy. He regarded it as the principal seat of the soul and the place in which all our thoughts are formed."

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pineal-gland/

    The two sections relevant to this discussion might be:

    Pseudo-Science

    As philosophy reduced the pineal gland to just another part of the brain and science studied it as one endocrine gland among many, the pineal gland continued to have an exalted status in the realm of pseudo-science. Towards the end of the nineteenth century, Madame Blavatsky, the founder of theosophy, identified the “third eye” discovered by the comparative anatomists of her time with the “eye of Shiva” of “the Hindu mystics” and concluded that the pineal body of modern man is an atrophied vestige of this “organ of spiritual vision” (Blavatsky 1888, vol. 2, pp. 289–306). This theory is still immensely popular today.

    Scientific Developments

    In scientific studies of the pineal gland, little progress was made until the second half of the nineteenth century. As late as 1828, Magendie could still advance the theory that Galen had dismissed and Qusta ibn Luca had embraced: he suggested that it is “a valve designed to open and close the cerebral aqueduct” (Magendie 1828). Towards the end of the nineteenth century, however, the situation started to change (Zrenner 1985). First, several scientists independently launched the hypothesis that the pineal gland is a phylogenic relic, a vestige of a dorsal third eye. A modified form of this theory is still accepted today. Second, scientists began to surmise that the pineal gland is an endocrine organ. This hypothesis was fully established in the twentieth century. The hormone secreted by the pineal gland, melatonin, was first isolated in 1958. Melatonin is secreted in a circadian rhythm, which is interesting in view of the hypothesis that the pineal gland is a vestigial third eye. Melatonin was hailed as a “wonder drug” in the 1990s and then became one of the best-sold health supplements. The history of pineal gland research in the twentieth century has received some attention from philosophers of science (Young 1973, McMullen 1979), but this was only a short-lived discussion.

  • frequencytuner Nov 14, 2013

    The physical being is the vessel, the body, the vehicle born of ash and dust to die and rot and return to ash and dust. The spark of life that imbibes it for that speck of 'time' is Spirit and the body is animated or enlivened with Spirit causing the heart to beat, also known as a cardiac rhythm and the brain to spark also known as neurological activity. Spirit 'dwells' in a tiny center of the human brain right next to the pituitary gland, aka 'master' gland that controls bodily functions, this special gland is the pineal gland, or third eye and it controls DMT production and is regulated by the circadian rhythm of the earth. It is given this name because of it's signature shape resembling a pine cone and the alluded to geometry and Sacred Science behind the allusion, but also because it literally contains light receptors identical to the physical eyes aside from being contained exactly in between the brain hemispheres and within an electromagnetically sealed chamber that is hermetically isolated from the physical environment. When Spirit leaves the physical body, the heart and brain will cease activity and the person will be declared dead.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 14, 2013

    Any responses? Here is an opportunity to provide a non traditional scientific answer.

    "According to your concepts, how does the spirit interface with the physical being?"

    None provide an answer because one would have to be able to understand the tradition sciences first in order to speculate on an alternative to it.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 14, 2013

    Jim,
    This is the second time in this thread that you have resorted to personally attacking the participates. Perhaps you will inform us all how this is either meaning or enlightened?
    Your arguments continue to repeat the same problem over and over again, confusing your subjective viewpoint with what IS. (" its not that there IS a "spirit" (or a god), you believe that there is").
    I stated, "Nothing you have provided definitively suppose having a spirit." and asked, "Which research have you read of the "Show Me..." list? ".
    Neither of these questions rely on "traditional science," they rely of the research you yourself pointed to, but, I suspect, have not read or understood.
    It's time to stop making others your excuse for a weak argument.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 14, 2013

    EDIT:

    My last comment should read:

    Dustproduction, I give you credit for only one thing; your artistry for disrupting meaningful threads.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 14, 2013

    Dustproduction,

    I must give you credit for one thing, you artistry of disrupting meaningful threads.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 14, 2013

    @ dustproduction,

    I ignore your questions because your are an asshole; a dogmatic devotee of traditional science,

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 14, 2013

    @ Jim

    You ignore my questions because they expose the weakness of your argument.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 14, 2013

    Hi bestearth,

    I agree with you that there is such a thing as unwise sharing. Recently I began to experience that sharing even in these discussions can be unwise, because of the scant response to it.

    Your comment to me about my Nov 11 post made me realize that there is value in sharing in these Discussions, because you understood what I was communicating.

    Yes, I experience that when asking a question silently to my inner self the answer comes not with a direct response, but with a feeling. Often that feeling is simply the disappearance of the entity that asked the question.

    What follows is something that your words encourage me to share.

    Currently, Neuroscience stands at the plateau of scientific authority and it proclaims that there is no “me”, “I” or personal self. It proclaims that the experience of a personal self is nothing more than identification with a story, constructed from memories of past experiences.

    Can we combine the proclamation of neuroscience with the foundation stone of IONS, that consciousness is not a possession of a personal self, but a characteristic of the universe?

    It appears that we can combine the two and experience the result, but it requires that we abandon the reasoning of a personal self.

    “You ask ‘How can I know the infinite? I answer, not by reason. It is the office of reason to distinguish and define. The infinite, therefore, cannot be ranked among its objects. You can only apprehend the infinite by a faculty superior to reason, by entering into a state in which you are your finite self no longer, in which the Divine Essence is communicated to you. This is Ecstasy. It is the liberation of your mind from its finite consciousness.” Plotinus (205 –270 AD)

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 14, 2013

    Beautiful, isn't it?!

    Being Conscious within and without it... extraordinary! ;)

  • Drdawood2014 Nov 14, 2013

    Thanks Realityoverscience

    ( No matter/matter what you want to figure out, you were born with the ability to reflectively/reflectively realize its Answer in Truth!)

    This statement makes me full of awareness ,and make me forget my solid body,and feel with my heart and soul!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 14, 2013

    Without going out of my door
    I can know all things on earth
    Without looking out of my window
    I can know the ways of heaven

    The farther one travels (projects, becomes distracted)
    The less one knows

    Tao Te Ching (The Way Things Work)

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 14, 2013

    <<<<Reality,
    I respect your seeking for freedom a little bit away from science terms , and his limited boundaries .
    But, REDEFINING "science," depending upon what?
    We are connected to earth!
    We explore things on earth,in the sky, the universe,and explore each other depending on what we see,what we read,and what we hear, to FORM feelings, and to know.Sometimes we use smell,or touch.
    It is really challenging our capacities if we tried to imagine or to know things never seen,never described,and have no similar models on earth.>>>>

    Dr...

    Hold your hand up in front of you, palm facing yourself.
    That is *within.*

    Turn your palm around, away from yourself.
    That is *without.*

    Back to yourself...within!
    Back out to the world...without!

    Within X Without X Within X Without

    WithinXWithout!

    Everything "out there" in the world, the cosmos, is a reflection of yourself! Invertedly, you are a reflection of it! Any it!

    There will never be a time, or space, that isn't some element of yourself! Sentients are faaaaar more than they allow themselves to Awaken to! No matter/matter what you want to figure out, you were born with the ability to reflectively/reflectively realize its Answer in Truth!

    At the Universal Core, the Conscious/Enlightened One dissolves/resolves into the True Physics of it all/Awe, no boundaries whatsoever between within and without, and this is because EVERYTHING in the entire Universe, including everybody, every object, every event, every happening, including the weather and the Cosmos, is inescapably using the EXACT SAME PHYSICS!

    So, you really can realize anything you set out to realize, because its physics are that of your own!

    This Universal Truth has been *realized* (and written about) by the highest of sages for thousands upon thousands of years!

    No matter how far out in the Cosmos, or how closely observed under the most powerful microscope, the physics still apply!

    It is all a reflection of yourself! (...and vice versa!)

    Tao 47.

  • bestearth Nov 14, 2013

    Hi Jim,

    I also have relatives like that. I have learned to not share such information because you can't force a rose to bloom basically. If people are stuck in their programming then so be it. Leave 'em there. I just work on myself, on the state of my own health. The people who notice it may enquire to ask what I know. Then I feel like this person appreciates health enough. Maybe they are open, and then it's possible to share something practical. So I try to 'show' not 'tell' as best I can. There are such things as unwise sharing and unwise giving. This is just my view.

    A point about your earlier comment from nov 11.

    "If one can fully grasp the concept that consciousness is not a personal experience, but something that permeates the universe and then translate that concept into direct experience, I am unable to imagine a more profound experience of spirituality. "

    This is quite a profound observation and seems to relate to discussion as to whether God is personal or impersonal. Of course your relatives and mine favour the personal God. My awareness of guidance that I experience, especially sice getting into cleansing of the body, is as feeling loaded with information suggests to me that we are watched that we even have an audience. But their guidance is impartial, impersonal. As if they encourage your best and want nothing to do with your personality. It's a guidance that doesn't blow sunshine up your nose but is patient and direct talking but not spoon feeding. It's as simple as asking your masters 'What do you think of this?' , then a feeling comes as the answer. It's amazing to be a participant in this process.

    Tell me, how do you experience this kind of thing?

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 13, 2013

    @dustproduction

    I have a niece who is a fundamentalist Christian and suffers from a variety of ailments and physical pains.

    In order to help her I watched two videos with her about the benefits of grounding technology.

    Half way through the second video she left the room praying aloud and asking forgiveness for watching something supernatural.

    What she does not understand she considers supernatural and in her belief system the supernatural is something of the devil.

    There was a time when I was very critical of her belief system as I was previously very critical of the perpetual criticism in your comments.

    I now see both of you as victims of archaic condition, view you both with compassion, ignore her outbursts and simply ignore anything you post.

  • Drdawood2014 Nov 13, 2013

    dust,
    I like theories that reject the Cartesian version of self as a unitary, isolated entity, and have likewise rejected mental illness as an intrapsychic dysfunction.
    I think( self) is a concept of several features related to NEEDS, like those determined by Abraham Maslow in 1973.
    Thus (illness) is a discoordination between NEEDS and CAPACITIES AND FUNCTIONS of the human, preventing the normal responses for satisfaction.

    Reality,
    I respect your seeking for freedom a little bit away from science terms , and his limited boundaries .
    But, REDEFINING "science," depending upon what?
    We are connected to earth!
    We explore things on earth,in the sky, the universe,and explore each other depending on what we see,what we read,and what we hear, to FORM feelings, and to know.Sometimes we use smell,or touch.
    It is really challenging our capacities if we tried to imagine or to know things never seen,never described,and have no similar models on earth.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 13, 2013

    Also Re: "The term ESP has been replaced with the term psi, (pronounced(sigh) which is the first three letters of the Greek word “psyche”, meaning soul or mind. Use of the term psi removes the phenomena mentioned in the previous paragraph from identification with sensory experience or extra sensory experience."

    This whole statement is unsupported.

    "In parapsychology, psi is the purported process of information transfer or energy transfer in extrasensory perception or psychokinesis that is unexplained in terms of known physical or biological mechanisms.[1] The term is derived from the Greek, ψ psi, 23rd letter of the Greek alphabet; from the Greek ψυχή psyche, "mind, soul".[2][3]"

    1: Bem, D. J., & Honorton, C. (1994). Does psi exist? Replicable evidence for an anomalous process of information transfer. Psychological Bulletin', 115, 4-18.
    2: What do parapsychologists study?, Parapsychological Association (2007-02-03)
    3: a b c Psi - Glossary of Key Words Frequently Used in Parapsychology, Parapsychological Association (2007-01-29)

    In an experiment using neuroimaging to resolve the psi debate (Moulton and Kosslyn, 2008) wrote:
    Functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) was used in an effort to document the existence of psi. If psi exists, it occurs in the brain, and hence, assessing the brain directly should be more sensitive than using indirect behavioral methods (as have been used previously). To increase sensitivity, this experiment was designed to produce positive results if telepathy, clairvoyance (i.e., direct sensing of remote events), or precognition (i.e., knowing future events) exist. Moreover, the study included biologically or emotionally related participants (e.g., twins) and emotional stimuli in an effort to maximize experimental conditions that are purportedly conducive to psi. In spite of these characteristics of the study, psi stimuli and non-psi stimuli evoked indistinguishable neuronal responses-although differences in stimulus arousal values of the same stimuli had the expected effects on patterns of brain activation. These findings are the strongest evidence yet obtained against the existence of paranormal mental phenomena.[9]

    There is no independent method to indicate the presence or absence of psi.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 13, 2013

    @ Jim

    Re: "adamantly opposed to any mention of spirituality"
    Since this is aimed at me I will address it directly. I am NOT opposed to the mention of the concept. I have stated that spirituality is a BELIEF system. There is no evidence that demonstrates a spirit or soul or that identity of a self is retained beyond this life.
    Using ancient terms or understandings does not convey the same meaning you are applying to them.
    So, get it right: its not that there IS a "spirit" (or a god), you believe that there is. Nothing you have provided definitively suppose having a spirit. (Did you watch the Lakoff video I posted?)

    Re: "consciousness is not a personal experience"
    It most certainly is! It is subjective and cannot be know or shared by another. Even identical twins with the same DNA, originating from a single fertilized egg has a separate consciousness.
    BTW: according to your concepts, how does the spirit interface with the physical being?

    My previous comment regarding "intersubjectivity theory" address your point about "experience interconnectedness with the universe" without the need for a soul.

    A commenter at the Radin essay you point to posted this:
    "First, even a lot of well meaning people are not going to take the time to analyze the studies that are posted (which doesn't mean this isn't a good idea - just thought i'd repeat that in case someone is skimming this for a 5 second sound bite:>)!!

    Second, even if people who are untrained try to take the time, they will still have difficulty understanding it (which doesn't mean it shouldn't be done!!)

    Third, even qualified people won't necessarily understand it (as 40+ years of Hyman, Alcock, Marks, Wiseman and the rest make all too clear)."

    Which research have you read of the "Show Me..." list that specifically supposes your statements?

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 13, 2013

    Before we explore the self and the concept of a spirit let's ask "What is a Mind?
    How you ever heard of "Intersubjectivity theory?"

    "George E. Atwood, Robert D. Stolorow, and Donna M. Orange are the core theorists of intersubjective systems theory, a form of psychoanalytic practice that focuses on the relational origins of mental distress and does so through the interpersonal and intersubjective relationship of the analyst and analysand.

    These theorists, all of whom are practicing psychoanalysts, have rejected the Cartesian version of self as a unitary, isolated entity, and have likewise rejected mental illness as an intrapsychic dysfunction. In their model, which relies heavily on phenomenological philosophy as its explanatory foundation, the patient's troubles (excluding organic disease or physical trauma) exist only within the experiential and relational contexts in which they developed.

    There are two powerful and often implicit beliefs that underlie most current psychotherapeutic models: (1) the Myth of Modeling, "a way of thinking which over-emphasizes the conscious, cognitive, rational and technique based aspects of the psychoanalytic encounter" (Mikko Martela and Esa Saarinen, 2008), and (2) the Myth of the Isolated Mind (Stolorow and Atwood 2002), a remnant of the Cartesian dualism that has infected Western philosophy until the middle of the 20th Century and still is embedded in modern psychology.

    Intersubjective systems theory (IST, or intersubjectivity theory) proposes that minds are not isolated, unitary things that exist as individual entities, as though in a vacuum. Rather, minds exist within interpersonal and intersubjective relationships, beginning at birth (and even before) with the attachment bond to the mother, and they develop within interpersonal, intersubjective, relational contexts.
    http://integral-options.blogspot.com/2012/05/intersubjective-systems-theory-in.html

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 13, 2013

    Part 3...

    Of course, the conclusion should not to deny science. But it surely refers to the wide area of our ignorance compared to what we really know.

    ---- It's not about denying "science," but rather about appropriately REDEFINING "science," into the Balance it missed when it was establishing its basic foundation.

    And of course not to deny metaphysicals ,but to think deeply.

    ---- Nothing is really metaphysical. It's just basic *reality* and comfortably realized as such when conventional perception of it is Awakened!

    And that means that science may develop tools and instruments to study or detect things and phenomena out of our understanding.

    ---- Science, once its foundation and processing have been redefined into Balance, will IMMEDIATELY realize that those "tools and instruments" have been available to them, all along! EVERYTHING... is within one's ability to realize its Truth, but it'll never happen unless those seekers realize themselves as *worthy,* the most profound hurdle, and lesson, of life itself!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 13, 2013

    Part 2...

    So when we want to show the evidence, what we usually do?

    ---- Universal Physics Truth has to be DIRECTLY EXPERIENCED to be *realized* as inescapable Truth, because at the Ultimate Core, one dissolves/resolves into it, to experience the Translucence of it all, the Ultimate "aha!" The more one "does the work" involved toward that reunion, the more the physics, step by step, are learned as inescapable, and the more complex that physics becomes.

    Simply we talk,write,and show everything perceivable, to make the others hear,see, and feel whether it is true or false. So who neglect science means neglecting (wisdom)or reason?

    ---- "Science" is a human concept/label that is inadvertently afforded a status in society before it has EARNED that status! It doesn't get disputed because people basically don't know how. It's like a religion that punishes anyone who dares to question it! When "science" is realized for what it really is, and held to a higher standard than automatic acceptance, it begins to fall apart in many areas, including and especially foundational (physical, rigid), and like unquestioned religions suddenly having to answer for themselves, there is natural resistance. Science needs to step out of its inadvertent arrogance to learn the extreme importance of all that is right/right! (Feelings, intuition, sensory experiences, ESP, "philosophy" at the Core level).

    But when we talk about metaphysical things, or phenomena, what can we infer?

    ---- For those who actually "do the work" to become Enlightened/Conscious, inference isn't needed. The Universal Physics PROFOUNDLY, INESCAPABLY proves itself!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 13, 2013

    Dr...

    You ask such wonderful questions!

    Wasn't philosophy the mother of all sciences?

    ---- There's a lot more to philosophy than meets the *I.* To unconscious convention, it's all just subjective, made up opinion. At the Consciousness level, it's fact-based, Universal Physics-based, Translucence, with profoundly fascinating physics proof that is 100% inescapable! All throughout history, over thousands upon thousands of years, this is what the highest of sages have realized. Denial just makes people's lives far worse than they have to be, because every moment of their lives is "underwritten" by it! The "mother" analogy begins the process of Awakening to the Truth of these profound, inescapable Universal Physics, which then also begins the ACTUAL PHYSICS PROOF of "paranormal" realities.

    Isn't there a relationship of exchange between science and philosophy?

    ---- The state of the art of conventional science is that they are inadvertently running into their despised nemesis, philosophy, and they are running away from it, rather than staying to realize why. Science has mistakenly founded itself upon their Faith that everything that matters is physical and rigid. Problem is, nobody bothered to make ASKING that foundation! Now, persisting on still TELLING the Universe and the world what it "has to" be, they're lost and fighting among themselves, and against accepting their foundational mistake. Societal status, tenure, etc., are hard for scientists to redefine.

    I think wisdom = science and/or reason.

    ---- If science is solely reason-based, it is imbalanced, because in a Translucent Universe, there is ...nothing/Nothing left...at the Core!

  • Drdawood2014 Nov 13, 2013

    Wasn't philosophy the mother of all sciences?
    Isn't there a relationship of exchange between science and philosophy?
    I think wisdom = science and/or reason.
    So when we want to show the evidence, what we usually do?
    Simply we talk,write,and show everything perceivable, to make the others hear,see, and feel whether it is true or false. So who neglect science means neglecting (wisdom)or reason?
    But when we talk about metaphysical things, or phenomena, what can we infer?
    Of course, the conclusion should not to deny science. But it surely refers to the wide area of our ignorance compared to what we really know.
    And of course not to deny metaphysicals ,but to think deeply.
    And that means that science may develop tools and instruments to study or detect things and phenomena out of our understanding.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 13, 2013

    There is much more on this website than Discussions. Some of this has been previously posted, but it’s helpful to be reminded of it occasionally.

    The term ESP (extra sensory perception) places phenomena such as telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition and psychokinesis in the context of sensory or extra sensory experience.

    The term ESP has been replaced with the term psi, (pronounced(sigh) which is the first three letters of the Greek word “psyche”, meaning soul or mind. Use of the term psi removes the phenomena mentioned in the previous paragraph from identification with sensory experience or extra sensory experience.

    A fundamental purpose of IONS is to do scientific research related to psi that proves that consciousness is not confined within individual brains, but consciousness is an expression or characteristic of the universe.

    This position is contrary to the assumption of traditional science that each brain contains an independently existing unit of consciousness.

    At the top of this page click NOETIC NOW and you will come to a page listing several topics.

    The second topic down is entitled “SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE”, click it.

    You will come to three paragraphs where Dean Radin, the chief scientist of IONS, discusses evidence for psi. At the end of those three paragraphs, click “See the evidence” and you will be taken to nearly one hundred selected peer-reviewed journal publications on psi research. You can download a PDF file and read any or all of the articles. In addition there are several recommended books and videos that can be viewed.

    When we fully grasp that consciousness is not a personal experience, but that consciousness is a characteristic of the universe, this creates a profound and dramatic shift in our experience of self and spirituality.

    That is to say, we no longer experience that we are a self that exists independent of the universe; we are transformed to experience interconnectedness with the universe, each other and all other life forms on the planet. This is a profoundly spiritual experience.

    In these Discussions, there is a voice that is adamantly opposed to any mention of spirituality and it habitually posts comments supporting the traditional science position that consciousness consists of independent units confined within individual brains.

    This is done in an attempt to refute the volumes of evidence for psi and refute the IONS position that consciousness is a characteristic or expression of the universe.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 13, 2013

    When I am talking about physics or science, I definitely do NOT mean the naïve physics or science of convention, or that of the collective unconscious convention.

    An analogy would be... The science and physics used by the general public, by like, say, a high school teacher or basic lab scientist, or even a university professor, are trivial compared to the extremely advanced science of top secret security agencies (Los Alamos, Area 51, etc...)

    As I have said in other posts, everything going on in the Universe, that everyday people see and assume is "all there is" and establish their entire lives and defense mechanisms around, is just a teeny tiny hint of what all is REALLY going on "behind the scenes," so to speak, because all life, all everything, is "underwritten" by an extremely advanced (far more highly evolved) consistent, unrelenting, inescapable physics, and it is these extremely advanced goings on that the Universally Conscious/Enlightened realize, know, and are fluent in.

    The DIFFERENCE between what the general public assumes or is privy to, and the VERY REAL higher Universal Physics "underwriting" everything, everybody, everywhere, is what is causing the everyday world to naïvely define what they can't understand or process as..."metaphysical, psychic," etc., and..."impossible!"

    When realized and experienced in that extremely advanced *place of awareness/Awakening, none of it is "fake" or "out of the ordinary" at all! It is simply part of the very real Universal Physics, the REAL truth, that the collective unconscious convention, in their limited understanding, cannot (as in, won't allow themselves to) process, as they keep themselves inside the boundaries of their comfort zones.

    So, to conduct genuine, legitimate research and get genuine, legitimate results, people with enough realization and respect for higher, more highly evolved results, need to be present. Otherwise, it's just "junk in, junk out" that naïvely and very unfortunately winds up in professional journals, books, magazines, on TV documentaries, etc., being taken as "authority" and emulated by society, including world society, and it is costing millions upon millions of people their lives!

  • Drdawood2014 Nov 12, 2013

    So, it seems a matter of science.
    i.e the only thing can be trusted here is science,and we dismiss what can be called (beyond science). Even Consciousness, is related to our nature of creation as a very intelligent machines provided with tools for perception and awareness.So by using them we creat and produce (knowledge),and all that by using science, as a matter, or as a method to undrstand ourselves and the uivers.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 12, 2013

    I would suggest starting with the physics of "mother," and then conduct additional, progressive research into the essential "nuclear family."

    Actually, I did suggest that, here on these boards, as the first step toward genuine Consciousness/Enlightenment, months ago.

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 12, 2013

    Well, scientific researchers trying to understand "psychic" phenomena should have to be Conscious first, or at least formally educated in that direction, or acknowledged as advanced enough to not waste the effort, because otherwise it might as well be burger makers from a fast food restaurant, a newspaper seller, an ice cream vender, a random person off the street, etc., doing the research! If they don't have even the basic most awareness of what it really is that they are trying to measure, and how to go about it, how are they going to know what to explore, how to go about exploring it, and what the results would be saying to them?!

    So, first, in a step by step method, the researchers would need to be carefully chosen, and that would be decided upon by advanced overseers initiating the project, and those funding the research, who have documented reason to trust the judgment of those overseers, so their investments are not wasted.

    Then there would have to be a (literal) meeting of the minds, so everyone is aware of the mission statement, the guidelines, the location and course of the study, etc..

    If the overseers and researchers are Conscious enough to conduct the project mindfully, there would be enormous respect for what they are trying to achieve. If they go into the project without a clue, still influenced by conventional expectation, they wouldn't respect the project, its guidelines, respect or know to protect the subjects involved, let alone how to conduct any necessary aftercare, and they wouldn't realize the value of, or how to even process, the project's findings.

    Reporting a blind following the blind outcome in a professional journal would be profoundly irresponsible, but, of course, even that would not be realized as such. But the masses would emulate it as having been conducted with informed authority.

    So, definitely...aware enough researchers, from the start. Otherwise, it would be like trying to fit a meatball through a soda straw. The whole breakdown would be missing.

  • Drdawood2014 Nov 12, 2013

    For more comprehension for the question asked in this topic :
    Through the question asked in this topic, is an attempt to think in a new way to find or to suggest a logical steps can be taken in account by researchers while carrying out their procedures of the research in psychic domains.
    As well as, what is / are the criterium/ criteria required to be used for validity and reliability to accept the findings as a scientific fact.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 12, 2013

    Stick to the question folks.
    (This kind of personal squabbling back and forth is an epidemic on this site.)

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 12, 2013

    Continued...

    Conventional scientists, unconscious and looking in all the wrong places for their answers, are exploiting the trust of countless millions who emulate their every "impossible" research finding! Trust and faith are required for balanced living. You want spirituality? Wake up to the physics of Translucence!

    So next time you think I am bragging and flaunting my "ego," think of the quarter of a million people who DIED in the 2004 Indonesian tsunami, all those BABIES who were KILLED in the Oklahoma nightmare, the astronauts whose lives were lost in those shuttle disasters, all those Moms and Dads, sons and daughters, etc., shown crushed to death under earthquake fallen buildings, the folks washed away in those powerful storms and tsunamis, etc., and all the other nightmares on the evening news I relentlessly WARNED about, from all around the world, only to be repeatedly IGNORED and have to see the AFTERmath of the sleeping world convention and its extremely naïve scientists, etc., and think of the billion tears I have shed over my lifetime, knowing I knew but no one would listen, and then call my BEGGING "ego!"

    Try trusting your heart and learning to have faith in yourself and in humanity on the level that I have to deal with, while you are trying SOOOO HARD to save people's lives while they are bashing you in the face all the while, because until you do...

    You, sir, haven't got a clue in (heck)!

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 11, 2013

    Well, in the future when I detect devastating events, I'll be sure to leave out any warnings that involve you and your loved ones, howz that?! :) (Okay, well maybe your loved ones can stay.)

    By the way, I don't post contingent on what you post, and I wasn't talking to you.

    I'm perfectly content to keep it that way! If you're not comfortable with what I post, don't read it. (But you ARE inescapably "doing the work" when you do!). ;)

    Nothing you say negates the true Universal Physics Processes. They are what they are, and I have decades of officially documented proof of my accuracy that you also can never negate, and sages from all throughout human history, and tens of thousands of years of very famous writings, taught in universities all around the world, agreeing with me.

    If you don't like what I post, ignore me. But rest assured, I'm not going away. This is NOT about YOU! It's not about me, either, and never has been! I have a responsibility to save people's lives, and to teach the TRUE physics toward that endeavor, along with the advancement of society relative to science and technologes requiring advanced Universal Physics realizations.

    Most people run away from it, but not before attacking and bashing me, as if I were garlic to Dracula! It comes with the territory and I am beyond used to it! I have tough skin. I've seen the faces of bashers of me among the key people involved in protecting entire cities full of people, in the AFTERmath of the events I tried relentlessly to report in extraordinary detail, after they let thousands die and suddenly realize what they've done!

    I know the physics of "psychic" phenomena, precognition, ESP, telepathy, clairvoyance, mysticism, etc., etc., etc., inside and out, because they are inescapably a part of...YES!...superConsciousness/Enlightenment, and if you were those, you would be fluent in their physics, as well.

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 11, 2013

    Re: research into spirituality

    I will provide the evidence presented by VS Ramashadran's split brain talk.
    "Neurologist VS Ramachandran explains the case of split-brain patients with one hemisphere without a belief in a god, and the other with a belief in a god."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFJPtVRlI64

    Where is the evidence of a spirit/body interface, or any evidence of a spirit?
    A false assumption here seems to be that consciousness is the soul or spirit of the self, but as George Lakoff, and others have stated, a bump on the head can change our identity.
    http://www.closertotruth.com/video-profile/What-makes-Personal-Identity-Continue-George-Lakoff-/1527

    Do people have a soul is a question Lakoff also addresses:

    http://www.closertotruth.com/video-profile/Do-Persons-have-Souls-George-Lakoff-/1525

  • Anonymous Icon

    dustproduction Nov 11, 2013

    As this quote indicates, there is a vast difference between experiencing a paranormal phenomena and BELIEF in them.

    A psychological study involving 174 members of the Society for Psychical Research completed a delusional ideation questionnaire and a deductive reasoning task. As predicted, the study showed that "individuals who reported a strong belief in the paranormal made more errors and displayed more delusional ideation than skeptical individuals". There was also a reasoning bias which was limited to people who reported a belief in, rather than experience of, paranormal phenomena. The results suggested that reasoning abnormalities may have a causal role in the formation of paranormal belief.

    Lawrence, E., & Peters, E. (2004). Reasoning in believers in the paranormal. Journal of Nervous & Mental Disease, 192, 727–733.

    Which psychic phenomena are we discussing here?
    Psychic = relating to or denoting faculties or phenomena that are apparently inexplicable by natural laws, esp. involving telepathy or clairvoyance : psychic powers.
    • (of a person) appearing or considered to have powers of telepathy or clairvoyance

    The word is derived from psyche, as the greeks used it. So I would disagree that it is referencing the conscious experience.
    Consciousness= the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings : she failed to regain consciousness and died two days later.
    • the awareness or perception of something by a person : her acute consciousness of Mike's presence.
    • the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world : consciousness emerges from the operations of the brain.

    I will also take odds with the use of the term "principle" since the question refers to the scientific method.
    Principle= • a general scientific theorem or law that has numerous special applications across a wide field.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 11, 2013

    realityoverscience,

    Your post reveals that you did not comprehend the question asked in this topic.

    Your post also reveals that you did not read or comprehend my response to the topic.

    It seems that you habitually post whatever you wish as long as it provides the opportunity to exhibit that you have some superior knowledge of what you refer to as genuine superConsciousness/Enlightenment.

    You’re habitual boasting of superior wisdom reveals that you are trapped in an ego that gains gratification by boasting of what may be your delusion of being an enlightened being.

    Please spare us of your habitual boasting and read carefully the topic and my response to it. Then if you must post something respond to the topic and/or my response to the topic.

    I’ll slightly reword my response to the topic and post it again, please read it carefully before you once again exhibit your perpetual habit of boasting about your elevated spiritual status.

    “At the foundation of contemporary scientific exploration into psychic research, is the principal that consciousness is not confined within individual brains, but consciousness is a characteristic or expression of the universe.

    For me, this principal expands my appreciation of spirituality far beyond any concepts previously appreciated.

    If one can fully grasp the principal that consciousness is not a personal experience, but that consciousness permeates the universe and then translate that concept into direct experience, an expression of spirituality will be experienced. I am unable to imagine a more profound experience of spirituality.”

  • Anonymous Icon

    RealityOverScience Nov 11, 2013

    When one's ability to reason and process is confined within the boundaries of unconscious convention, anything that doesn't make sense within its rules and laws of (allowable) understanding winds up being relegated to such derogatory, however unrealized, terms such as...psychic, metaphysical, mystical, magical, clairvoyant, etc., and nothing can be accomplished from there, because they are collectively branded from the start, and likewise anyone who attempts to figure them out.

    In reality, convention is made up of the collective unconscious stories people have told themselves for soooo long that they've taken on false realities persisted upon by culture, tradition, unconscious religions (often fear-based and threatening from further made up laws of living). etc..

    With genuine superConsciousness/Enlightenment of the true Universal Physics Processes taking place at the Core, none of those "psychic" things berated by convention are weird and "impossible" at all, but rather aspects of the TRUTH of what we really are, what everything really is, and all of it is easily explained...and experienced directly.

    In other words, phenomena such as precognition, ESP, clairvoyance, mysticism, etc., are not "weird" at all! They are natural FACT!

    What's weird is convention being so vested in its persistent unconsciousness that the truth behind such things cannot be realized for what they REALLY are all about (natural higher physics processes) in reality, and that conventional scientists and other researchers are looking in all the wrong places, using all the wrong methodologies in their experiments, such that the inadvertent results of "junk in, junk out" methodologies are then used to assure/brainwash the naïve, trusting world that "precognition is impossible," and millions upon millions of people are dying because of it.

  • Anonymous Icon

    Jim Centi Nov 11, 2013

    At foundation of contemporary scientific exploration into psychic research, is the principal that consciousness is not confined within individual brains, but consciousness is a characteristic or expression of the universe.

    For me, this principal expands my appreciation of spirituality far beyond any concepts previously appreciated.

    If one can fully grasp the concept that consciousness is not a personal experience, but something that permeates the universe and then translate that concept into direct experience, I am unable to imagine a more profound experience of spirituality.

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