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Is there a possibility to study Noetic Science and to join research groups in Europe?

Posted Sept. 25, 2010 by DasLicht in Open

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commented on June 17, 2011
by merababa

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Hello, I just discovered the existence of the Neotic Science. I was reading a book and checked on the internet if it already exists. Now I have some questions: I'd like to know if there is a possibility to study the scientific approach of those theories and if scientific researches exist in Europe. I'm more interested in the scientific approach, not because I have something against esoteric (I have an esoteric education and I'm fully open minded to the concept of spiritual elevation) but because for me it seems to be a more reachable way to enter this knowledge, to ensure a consequent evolution. I got some experiences in my life which instigate my curiosity on the subject and I intend seriously to dedicate myself to scientific studies in this domain. Perhaps someone can inform me a little bit? Thank you in advance. Johanna (From Luxembourg)


  • 36 Comments  
  • Anonymous Icon

    merababa Jun 17, 2011

    hello,can you please suggest any university where we can go deeper into this field of noetic science..please help

  • Anonymous Icon

    yusheng Oct 03, 2010

    Dear Sandstone,
    i have searched some references about religion compare after rereading your comment, and found that the western religion and eastern religion are so different that i began to regret my ignorance on using the word of religion.
    such differences originated from the cultural differences, the ndividual faith in eastern religions is acquired from individual practice. for example, if you get some special abilities after you follow some doctrines, then you believe; if you don't get them after you follow the doctrines, then you lose faith in it. we call such process "verifications", which exist all the steps during one's practices. and that is why in Buddhism and Taoism there are so many descriptions of practice phenomena.

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    yusheng Oct 02, 2010

    Sandstone ,thank you for your pointing out that religions are not important and religions have negative aspects.

    the situation is so interveined that it is hard to explain the word “religion" i used above, since i saw that word so many times on Noetic Institute Website.
    in fact, i have not entered any religious system, but i have learned much from Chinese traditional "religions" about spiritual knowledge. When i discuss with Chinese, it is not a problem because we all know religion is only a coat, what we need is body, though which kind of body is a big question. Some one says that science is a new religion, so is communism and capitalism,do you agree?

    it is human nature to gather together and to form a set of system.

    You and me may have different understanding for the conception of religion, especially the Buddhism and Taoism, of which you may think they are religions, but i regard them much more as systems of Weltanschauung, philosophy or methodology. and i am thinking if you can really understand their core tenets, you may get some inspirations as i have.

    For example, if you agree the meditation is valid, then you will find very detailed and systematic dissertations on it in the books of Buddhism and Taoism, which are very useful in the research of spiritual phenomena. in fact, similar recordings, more or less, can be found in every "religion", and they are based on "personal journey and observations", and that is why we can design our experiments to research human brain and body or reproduce psi, like noeyevision.

    So let's do something to make the religion go away.

  • Sandstone Oct 02, 2010

    Yusheng, religion isn't a prerequisite to having spiritual experiences. I wouldn't consider myself religious at all. I think religion can be a threat to many things I consider important. Like women's rights. World peace. Not to mention just basic rational thinking. I admit to wondering how any scientist could belong to a church and be trusted to make rational judgments. I know that's a pretty harsh view of religion, but I still see women subjugated and repressed by religious groups and I still see religious fundamentalists in the news threatening harm to people who hold a different belief system. Very little about organized religion seems rational.

    Spirituality is different. It's a much more personal journey. And science can be spiritual. I think the important thing for me is being able to question and make personal observations, which is something one is trained to do when studying science. I certainly don't have all the answers, but no one does. Science is more about thinking up the really good questions.

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    yusheng Oct 01, 2010

    as i said, "know-how" is not a must need or necessary to "control" in driving. you can begin from either side, or from both sides;
    seems that you have already got some esoteiric knowledge, then you may do some practice to improve your capacities which would facilitate you know how, though it is not easy.
    i think every religion has methods to help its believers enter their spiritual world, you may look for religious literatures to find what is fit for you.
    as i know from Buddhism and Taoism, super capacities are not very hard to obtain, but inappropriate use of them will lead dangerous end.
    I dont know the purpose of your "know-how".

  • Anonymous Icon

    DasLicht Oct 01, 2010

    Hehe yes I know. I have no need of religion, I understand it but it is not what I'm looking for.

    I'm much more looking for the "know-how" or I could also say the control of capacities. This is what I meant with driver licence.
    I'm curious, I want to see if I will be able to learn some things in this domain.

  • Anonymous Icon

    yusheng Oct 01, 2010

    DasLicht, you have alread got your licence, your happy life is the final result. science and religion only helps us to live in happy and peace, if we can, science and religion is nothing.

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    yusheng Oct 01, 2010

    by the way, in China, many religion understandings are obtained not only by learning, but by feeling, such as through meditation.

  • Anonymous Icon

    DasLicht Oct 01, 2010

    I want to understand because it seem for me the best way to drive. I didn't find another way to pass my "driving licence". :)

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    yusheng Oct 01, 2010

    DasLicht, sorry for reply later.
    the point 4 is just saying that if we let our brain be, it may produce some true results, which is more philosophyical than scientifical.
    I think you question put the replyer into a dilemma:
    you have a car , do you want to understand it or just drive it? if you want to understand it, the theories a car contains or relates to is esoteric; if you want to drive it, you only to have a driving licence. seems that you want to understand it, so you will have to learn lots of to understand a car.
    as noetic science, which needs you go a long way to get something, no quick method.
    and one of the obstals is that modern science is far from enough to understand it or to explain it. if you want to contribute yourself to this field, i think you have to obtain deep knowledge both in science and in religion. then you can apply science to religion, or apply religion to direct your scientific research.
    and i don't know whether your religion will offer you mind-body knowlegds.

  • Sandstone Sep 30, 2010

    DasLicht, take your time and enjoy the journey. I'll be happy to answer questions if I can. And if I can't, I see if I can figure out who can.

    I don't want to overload you with stuff, but the Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE) website is pretty cool. They have some good videos here that will give you an idea of what kinds of things are being studied that might interest you.

    http://www.scientificexploration.org/talks/

  • Anonymous Icon

    DasLicht Sep 30, 2010

    Sandstone, give me a little time to view all documents you have sent me and then I will surely contact you because I'm really looking for some guidance to continue in this way and I hope to find a way to get involved, to get a chance to join this type of research because it is for me the chance to reveal myself. It is more than a wish, it is an instinctive need and I hope I can arrive in the right place, with the right people.
    I don't know yet how I can reach it but perhaps I can begin to hope that I've finally found the first step in.
    Ok, I know this can sound a little emotive! :P
    But it is quite disturbing to leave with a passion when you have the feeling that it can't be applied yet, that you can't really share it in a very concrete way.

  • Sandstone Sep 30, 2010

    DasLicht, you are right, there is a lot of literature to get through. Dean Radin's book, Entanged Minds is a good place to start. It gives a nice overview of the past research. Charles Tart's book, The End of Materialism is also very good. It's Dr Tart's attempt to explain why it is possible to be scientific and spiritual without being in conflict. It aso contains a good overview of the literature and shows where to get information on psi research and consciousness studies.

    Dean Radin's talk on the Tabboo of Psi is worth watching. So is Rupert Sheldrake's talk on the Extended Mind.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_O9Qiwqew
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnA8GUtXpXY

    If there is a more specific area of interest you want to consider, let me know and I'll try to help you out. This site has quite a few good references too. If you can't find me here, you can contact me through my blog:
    http://sandstonesquarry.blogspot.com/

  • Anonymous Icon

    DasLicht Sep 29, 2010

    Fallensoul, I thank you very much, I will read this with respect but this will not lead me to what I'm looking for.
    Sandstone I started to read Charles Tart's blog. I didn't read enough to make an opinion but in the first approach it seems to be an interesting man.

    Yusheng, I have some difficulties to understand point 4 but I will read it again later, perhaps I will get it.
    All the other points are those which are interesting to be studied. For the moment I don't know I quicker way to understand or to unblock those mechanisms. The problem with the existing literature is that there is far to much and it is difficult to define which can really lead somewhere. Perhaps for this I need to listen to my instincts... but a guidance, a professor would also help! :)

  • Anonymous Icon

    yusheng Sep 29, 2010

    you are smart persons, when you read the word " curial" of the 8th point, you mind will instantly tell you that is an error, and the word might be "crucial". such procedure in your brain is also self calculation, of which spiritual factors might take part in, though the procedure may be programmed previously.
    educaiton is similar to some kinds of programming in our brain, however, we can try to have our brain to program itself.
    is it possible?

  • Anonymous Icon

    yusheng Sep 29, 2010

    Knowledge itself is not the point here, the point is how we acquire it and confirm it.
    Let’s think a hypothesis to see whether the other way is possible:

    1. Replaying of any knowledge are some kinds of inside movements of human brain.
    2. Human brain is self-organizing organ; if controlling the input, with energy this complicated brain will reorganize itself, and results may be “catastrophic”.
    3. During the reorganizing, the movements of brain will convey something.
    4. Since the human brain is a part of this world, then the laws of its reorganizing are the same laws this world plays which we knew or we didn’t know. That indicates the results of brain self calculation may be true. “Dreams come true.”
    5. The question is how much we shall input, what we shall input, or just no input?
    6. And under what conditions our brain will do efficiently and would be led to the results we desire?
    7. Circulations and super-circulations constituted by dendrites,axons,and somas are changeable and plastic, would they be more malleable?
    8. The whole procedure relates to our body and environment too, it is synergic, of which the order-parameters of different levels are curial.

    Fortunately, meditation opens a gate allowing us to do such experiments, and historical literatures supply us ample of theories and practice recordings.

  • Fallensoul Sep 29, 2010

    Yes, Vedic knowledge: http://vedabase.net/iso/introduction/en

  • Sandstone Sep 29, 2010

    By "spiritual existence", I really meant to say having spiritual experiences or practises.

    Any chance of adding an edit feature to the posting options here? ;)

  • Sandstone Sep 29, 2010

    Fallensoul, being a scientist doesn't preclude one from having a spiritual existence. I'm very fond of Charles Tart's work. He often talks about evidence-based spirituality. The idea that it's OK to question the various belief systems available to us and accept or reject them based on what we can learn about them. I highly recommend his blog (http://blog.paradigm-sys.com/ ).

    I think it is difficult enough to just be a scientist, or conversely, to just pursue spiritual goals. But there's a much greater challenge in trying to bring both of those things together in one's life. It isn't for the faint of heart. I often don't feel up to that challenge myself, but it's been presented to me in a manner that's hard to walk away from. Anyone who pursues this goal requires courage.

    When Daslicht asked about wanting to pursue Noetic Sciences, I took it as asking about a path that included both science and noetics. But to get there, you really do need an education in science. I don't see any way around that. But it isn't an easy path to take. I wouldn't recommend it for the faint of heart.

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    DasLicht Sep 29, 2010

    "whereas if one develops faith in and accepts an authority or teacher who has transcendental knowledge, then one can learn much faster."

    I'm open to both ways and willing to listen to different type of persons but don't know any convincing teacher yet.
    For this reason, I said that if you have any other advice I would take them and check if I can trust in what I find through them.
    The scientific view is also an interesting tool for a curious person to direct, to target his observation and in this I agree that it is one point of view and not a global approach. To look near can also help to perceive the far.

    Are you thinking about an exact advice you would give to me when you speak about an authority or teacher?

  • Fallensoul Sep 29, 2010

    I'm sorry, I do not wish to discourage anyone in pursing their goals. All I am saying is that if you want to understand reality which includes these extraordinary experiences -- modern science and education currently isnt so suited to help us as much because it is based on limited sense perception and there is a reality outside of what we can observe, research and experiment with. There is nothing wrong with learning through research etc -- and if fact much of what the Noetic science does is fully scientific, but it can only give you partial knowledge.... It seems to me that DasLicht is searching for some higher knowledge. For example, its unlikely you'll be able to gain an real understanding of your near death experience and the purpose of that reality through a modern scientific degree. Yet information about this bigger reality does exist and can be taken advantage in a scientific way. It certainly will save you time.

    For example, if a child asks his mother, "Mum, who is my father?" and she points out, "Well, Here is your father." Now if you told your mum, "I dont believe you. I'm going to take our blood samples and test his DNA and then we'll know for sure." Well, imagine if you had to do that with everything your mother and father taught you when you were young! You wouldn't get very far. Similarly modern science is something like the child who wants to prove everything to be correct and this method will take up more time than we're have, whereas if one develops faith in and accepts an authority or teacher who has transcendental knowledge, then one can learn much faster. Especially with these things that are being discussed. That's pragmatic.

    >I did a BSc, a MSc, and now I'm working on a PhD in Science.
    Well done and good luck!

  • Anonymous Icon

    DasLicht Sep 28, 2010

    Sorry, I wanted to say I couldn't find studies which I have been able to focalise on.

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    DasLicht Sep 28, 2010

    It is good to hear that it seem's possible to go this way. It was not a Near Death Experience but what I believe in added to several confirmations, several experience (one of it lastet a fiew months) but I have nothing of a scientist yet.

    I could find studies which I have been able to focalise on. I'm very interested in many different things, very curious and have no problems to understand antyhing but I couldn't find the thing other's may call a passion. I regret a little bit not having known anything about noetic science before because I could have avoid to loose my chance of starting my working life in this sector but to by going this way I had the chance to explore my instincts. Today my only problem is to find the right way to go back to studies. :)

  • Sandstone Sep 28, 2010

    There is nothing wrong with pursuing an education in math or sciences. I'm a little discouraged by all the science bashing here on the discussion board of the Institute of Noetic SCIENCES.

    During my 20's, I made a living as an artist and musician. It was a wonderful life while it lasted. It ended on an isolated stretch of highway on the Canadian prairies when my car was sheared in half by a head-on collision with a large truck. I wasn't the same person after I came back from that experience. I had what is often referred to now as a Near Death Experience. At the time, I had never heard of such a thing.

    When I came back from that other place, one of the first things I was determined to do was study science. I was already in my 30's and had an established career, but I still figured out a way to go back to school. I did a BSc, a MSc, and now I'm working on a PhD in Science. Learning new things is like a drug to me now. It hasn't been an easy change to make, going from artist to scientist, but for me it has been worth it.

    I just can't see any downside to learning. A good education is a wonderful gift to yourself.

  • Anonymous Icon

    DasLicht Sep 28, 2010

    It's intuition which pushes me in this way, which makes me feel interest for this type of evolution but I'm also pragmatic, I live a pragmatique life and an esoteric approach (this is the way I define the pure intuitive way) is too unclear for a great evolution.
    The reason is that, to improve my personal capacities with this approach, I need to rely on advices from others but I also need to trust that I have a person in front of me with a real greater knowledge than mine and I don't know it yet, this source in which I can have such a faith.
    I wish to dedicate myself to the scientific approach because this mathematical way of thinking is less depending from a persons view.
    Also is a more simple to concentrate on it and to draw the way I need to go. Also scientific research could be a way to dedicate a greater part of my life to this domain.
    I already have an intuitive understanding but I feel the need of canalisation and I think that scientific research doesn't necessarily offer a rigid frame but can just be a good base, can be a good tool. I'd like to have a frame now to feel evolution in this knowledge because I feel ready for it.
    I'm not looking for knowledge given by authorities but perhaps it is good to have some to make a better start (even if it is to study them and contradict some of them later) . Fallensoul, if you have other advices, I'm fully open to them and I can check if they can be good for me.
    As you can understand I'm looking for some answers which can help me to go further steps, to unblock things. If one day I find a faster road to arrive to what I want, I will take it.

  • Fallensoul Sep 28, 2010

    "for me it seems to be a more reachable way to enter this knowledge, to ensure a consequent evolution."

    there are two major ways to acquire knowledge. From the bottom up, as you wish to pursue by scientific research work and experimentation and from the top down by getting knowledge or information from authorities. The are some fundamental problems with the bottom up approach. Firstly our senses are imperfect -- they are limited in many ways, so ultimately we can only acquire limited knowledge with them. Even if you make conclusions that may seem to be evolving, new information/discoveries could push you off the ladder. The other point is that reality is so vast that even through 100's of years of research and experimentation we still know so very little, dedicating yourself to this approach would mean theres a good chance you may not understand and appreciate reality as quickly as one who takes the elevator of knowledge from sources independent of our sense perception. In fact in the underworld of the scientist, they are heavily relying on information from these sources to verify and deepen their understanding of what they observe through experimentation. So getting in touch with authentic knowledge (which is already taken to be scientific) will save you alot of time and energy and help you make tangible progress in this short lifespan to what you want to understand.

  • Anonymous Icon

    yusheng Sep 27, 2010

    sorry for not elucidating, here the knowledge I say is generally obtained by logical positivism, compared with knowledge obtained by instinct, intuition, inspiration or even afflatus. in fact, lots of our present knowledge are from the intuition then proved.

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    yusheng Sep 27, 2010

    knowledge is important, but knowledge will also limite your mind, if you don't followe some special path, when you get your degree it is also a time your brain is framed, it is not good. how to balace the knowledge and intuition is a new filed of our research. as Frequencytuner said a whole or thorough understanding is necessary before you start to learn maybe a good method, of course there are other ways.

  • Sandstone Sep 26, 2010

    Your welcome, DasLicht. If you want someone local to ask questions of, the Parapsychological Association does have an international liason in Germany. You can find the contact info here:

    http://www.parapsych.org/liaisons.html

  • Anonymous Icon

    DasLicht Sep 26, 2010

    By the way, thank you for advices Sandstone. ;)

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    DasLicht Sep 26, 2010

    Getting a diploma or to simply acquire the knowledge, it is anyway relevant for a better understanding.
    An advice about the appropriated specializations (I have my idea but an other opinion would be welcome)?

  • frequencytuner Sep 26, 2010

    Zen Wisdom reminds us that the cup must be empty in order to be filled. It is better to thoroughly understand something - like physics - than to have a degree. Neither is dependent on the other, wisdom and acknowledgement have no relationship.

    Some wish to learn others to discover.

  • Sandstone Sep 25, 2010

    DasLicht, if you are truly interested in studying such things, it would probably help to have an undergraduate degree in something along the lines of physics.

  • Xiakathy Sep 25, 2010

    Count me in - get me out of here! If God wants me to exist in a reality where I can "contact the living" as Robbie Williams put it, surely he's going to bless me with a trip to somewhere where people know the universe isn't flat...!

    Cryodet II was good. I met some interesting scientists there. But that was a long time ago......

    And Tesla? Yes, they killed him because he knew too much. I guess that's the risk evolutionists face.

    Sandstone, is that really a pigeon hiding behind a rock???

  • Sandstone Sep 25, 2010

    I'm not sure what specifically you are looking for, but you might want to check out the parapsychological Association website. They have a list of educational opportunities here:

    http://www.parapsych.org/PDF/Parapsychology-Education-Opportunities.pdf

  • frequencytuner Sep 25, 2010

    And I as well. I would love to finish what Nikola Tesla started.

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